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Author Topic:   Question about evolution, genetic bottlenecks, and inbreeding
Modulous
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Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 32 of 123 (503107)
03-16-2009 6:55 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by harry
03-16-2009 6:50 AM


Re: Nope
So why is H eve and not F? She also seems to be related to everyone.
Trace everybody back through their mothers, they all lead back to H, not F.

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 Message 31 by harry, posted 03-16-2009 6:50 AM harry has not replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 37 of 123 (503115)
03-16-2009 7:25 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by harry
03-16-2009 7:17 AM


Re: Nope
We are beyond my question now. I understand fully how one MRCA can exist without the problem of inbreeding, as the mitrochondiral eve graph represents. However, it is innapropiate to use the same graph to say 'they are all the MOST recent common ancestor. All, common, sure, not most recent.
But they are all equally recent. They are all direct ancestors. You agree with that, right?

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 Message 35 by harry, posted 03-16-2009 7:17 AM harry has replied

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 Message 38 by harry, posted 03-16-2009 7:33 AM Modulous has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 41 of 123 (503119)
03-16-2009 7:55 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by harry
03-16-2009 7:33 AM


Would you Adam and Eve it?
Yes I do agree, but if one is the Y-adam it elevates him to the position of MRCA.
Who is right? IF you can show me I am wrong with a good reference, I will believe you.
What is magical or special about Y-adam that makes him the MRCA? The most recent common ancestor is simply the ancestor that is more recently common to the organisms under question. In the diagram shown, T and W are siblings (brother and sister). Therefore, the ancestor that they most recently have in common with each other are their parents. So the MRCAs of T and W are the second couple (from left to right) in the third generation.
Who is the most recent common ancestor of S and T? Well, not their parents, however, their fathers are brothers which means the most recent common ancestor is the first couple (from left to right) in the second generation.
But wait a minute, their S and T's mothers are sisters too! That means the most recent common ancestor is the third couple (from left to right) in the second generation.
In technical terms - it's a bit of a mess.
Unfortunately, we rarely have a perfect genealogy like this diagram so we can only go by tracing certain things like the mitochondria. However, this doesn't necessarily get us to the most recent common ancestor, just a common ancestor that is the most recent common matrilineal ancestor. The actual common ancestor is almost certainly going to be more recent than that. So 'Adam' and 'Eve' just give us maximum distances to the most recent common ancestor, but we know it must be closer (in our diagram S and T have more recent ancestors in common with one another even thought their matrilineal common ancestor was from a generation earlier).
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

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 Message 38 by harry, posted 03-16-2009 7:33 AM harry has replied

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Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 51 of 123 (503135)
03-16-2009 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by harry
03-16-2009 8:33 AM


Re: Would you Adam and Eve it?
No one has dealt with the fact that all the definitions I have found refer to the MRCA as an individual, not a group. If you can address this the conversation is complete. IF I am reading the definition wrong, what do they mean by individual
In the scenario described, who is the most recent common ancestor of S and T, according to your understanding?

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