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Author
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Topic: Percy is a Deist - Now what's the difference between a deist and an atheist?
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5217 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: 12-01-2001
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Message 245 of 375 (501625)
03-07-2009 6:27 AM
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Reply to: Message 240 by Percy
03-05-2009 2:39 PM
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Re: Possibility and Probability
Percy,
I appreciate the interest, but I've asserted throughout this thread that my spiritual beliefs make no sense. If you're trying to make sense of them then I think it's a lost cause. Fair enough  Mark
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 240 by Percy, posted 03-05-2009 2:39 PM | | Percy has not replied |
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5217 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: 12-01-2001
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Message 247 of 375 (501637)
03-07-2009 7:30 AM
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Reply to: Message 243 by RAZD
03-06-2009 10:26 PM
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Re: The Good The Bad And The Biased
RAZD,
Refuted by the contrary conclusion of Mark24. Just to clarify, my opinion is that there is no evidence of extraterrestrial life, the possibility of it existing is increased & this is justified by observations. Mark Edited by mark24, : No reason given.
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 243 by RAZD, posted 03-06-2009 10:26 PM | | RAZD has replied |
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5217 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: 12-01-2001
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Re: The Good The Bad And The Biased
Straggler,
Mark24 seems to agree that alien life is an evidentially supported logical possibility. See post 247. Mark
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 246 by Straggler, posted 03-07-2009 7:20 AM | | Straggler has not replied |
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5217 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: 12-01-2001
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Message 251 of 375 (501651)
03-07-2009 9:42 AM
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Reply to: Message 249 by Percy
03-07-2009 9:29 AM
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Re: The Good The Bad And The Biased
Percy,
I'm having trouble parsing this, it seems contradictory. Can you find another way of saying the same thing? There is no evidence that extraterrestrial life actuallyexists. However, given that life is just chemistry, & it is reasonable to assume that the chance chemical reactions that give rise to self-replicators have a greater possibility of occurring with greater number of total environments, ie. planets that are available. Therefore, the possibility of life occurring in the universe increased as far as we are concerned when it became know that extrasolar planets are commonplace. In the same way I have no evidence that there is a car passing down my road from my backgarden. Hearing a car engine provides evidence that there is a car in the vicinity & provides for the possibility that it may be travelling down my road. Mark Edited by mark24, : No reason given.
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 249 by Percy, posted 03-07-2009 9:29 AM | | Percy has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 253 by Percy, posted 03-07-2009 11:04 AM | | mark24 has not replied |
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5217 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: 12-01-2001
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Re: The Good The Bad And The Biased
Straggler,
Do you agree that belief in the possibility of alien life is an evidentially supported hypothesis and thus not equivalent to faith based belief in the actual existence of supernatural beings? Yes. Mark
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 250 by Straggler, posted 03-07-2009 9:35 AM | | Straggler has not replied |
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5217 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: 12-01-2001
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Message 259 of 375 (501683)
03-07-2009 1:04 PM
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Reply to: Message 254 by RAZD
03-07-2009 12:19 PM
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Re: The Good The Bad And The Biased
RAZD,
Would you agree that your position overall is not swayed significantly by an increase in the number of planets because of offsetting factors? Offsetting factors? My "position" is outlined in a previous post, how would it be swayed. I'm not sure what you're getting at. Mark
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 254 by RAZD, posted 03-07-2009 12:19 PM | | RAZD has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 263 by RAZD, posted 03-07-2009 4:45 PM | | mark24 has replied |
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5217 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: 12-01-2001
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Message 261 of 375 (501686)
03-07-2009 1:11 PM
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Reply to: Message 258 by Straggler
03-07-2009 12:58 PM
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Re: contrary means coming to a different end conclusion from the same type of world view
Straggler,
So either Mark thinks that elves and fairies are valid scientific hypotheses as well or you need to place less faith in the seemingly contradictory opinions of one individual When bluegenes asked me the question I had in mind specific alien life form, such as 3 headed snarfwhiffer, or green glandblasters, which are just as likely as elves & fairies. I'm not sure why I took that interpretation of the question since it's obvious in retrospect that any life elsewhere was the context.
Mark24 agrees with ME on that score. So it must be true If you mail me your address you can have an autograph Mark
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 258 by Straggler, posted 03-07-2009 12:58 PM | | Straggler has replied |
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5217 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: 12-01-2001
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Message 268 of 375 (501907)
03-08-2009 2:54 PM
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Reply to: Message 263 by RAZD
03-07-2009 4:45 PM
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Re: The Good The Bad And The Biased
RAZD,
Forgive me if I am in error By absurd, I mean coming to an unequivocal, or nearly so conclusion that life exists. We don't have a way of quantifying whether extraterrestrial life exists in the same way that we don't by definition of all the other things that we have no evidence of. I can see why you took it the way you did, but to be fair I think everyone has made equivocal statements on this & the other thread. It's just one of those things where it is incredibly easy to get the wrong end of the stick which is why the thread has gone on for so long, I think. None of which has been helped by a weeks holiday in which I was unavailable to follow the argument made by you & straggler & correct the misunderstanding. To this day I am still bewildered as to why my opinion makes you right & straggler wrong. In all other ways my position is pretty much in line with stragglers. Moreover, I agree 100% in the context of deism & IPU with his statement in the post above:
Essentially the difference between the atheist and the deist is one of intellectual consistency. In the presence of objective evidence both the atheist and the deist will dismiss the un-evidenced possibilities out of hand. Where there is no objective evidence the atheist continues to eliminate un-evidenced possibilities out of hand whilst the deist suddenly abandons rationality and embraces at least one such concept on the basis of faith.
Increasing the number of planets could increase the probability of life, or it could just increase the probability of more sterile planets due to the offsetting factors that make so many planets sterile. It increases both possibilities. Mark Edited by mark24, : No reason given. Edited by mark24, : No reason given. Edited by mark24, : No reason given.
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 263 by RAZD, posted 03-07-2009 4:45 PM | | RAZD has seen this message but not replied |
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5217 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: 12-01-2001
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Re: "Absence" Of Evidence
petrophysics,
A deist considers all of human existence and experience while the atheist and creationist picks and chooses what to deny out of hand. Utter bullshit. You should feel ashamed even making the assertion. Why? Because you have it exactly wrong as pertaining to atheists & deists. Atheists like straggler & I accept things which meet an evidential standard, deists do this [i]except[i/] when it comes to their "god". Mark Edited by mark24, : No reason given.
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5217 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: 12-01-2001
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Message 288 of 375 (503317)
03-17-2009 6:44 PM
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Reply to: Message 287 by RAZD
03-17-2009 6:39 PM
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Re: The Material Pink Mickey Mouse Shaped Balloon
RAZD, And yet there still isn't enough evidence for us to conclude a flying saucer flew past. And there still isn't enough evidence for us to conclude that your deistic god exists. Mark
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 287 by RAZD, posted 03-17-2009 6:39 PM | | RAZD has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 289 by RAZD, posted 03-17-2009 6:54 PM | | mark24 has replied |
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5217 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: 12-01-2001
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Message 296 of 375 (503357)
03-18-2009 4:36 AM
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Reply to: Message 289 by RAZD
03-17-2009 6:54 PM
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Re: The Material Pink Mickey Mouse Shaped Balloon
RAZD,
Which is why the deist was amused. You're amused that you don't have a reasonable level of evidence for something you hold to be true? You don't have a reasonable level of evidence for things you don't accept, either. Special pleading, again. Mark Edited by mark24, : No reason given.
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 289 by RAZD, posted 03-17-2009 6:54 PM | | RAZD has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 311 by RAZD, posted 03-19-2009 9:52 PM | | mark24 has replied |
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5217 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: 12-01-2001
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Message 313 of 375 (503548)
03-20-2009 4:49 AM
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Reply to: Message 311 by RAZD
03-19-2009 9:52 PM
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Re: The Material Pink Mickey Mouse Shaped Balloon
RAZD,
No, amused because (1) logic will never refute a personal experience, and (2) logic can never disprove reality. You missed the point. Someone claiming to have seen a flying saucer is not evidence enough for the rest of us to accept that he did.
The deist saw the flying saucer - that is not special pleading. What is special pleading would be you accepting that flying saucers exist on the basis that he said he saw one, & denying the existance of fairies in spite of the same level of evidence. Mark
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 311 by RAZD, posted 03-19-2009 9:52 PM | | RAZD has seen this message but not replied |
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5217 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: 12-01-2001
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Re: Doin' the deist/atheist flip-flop
petrophysics1,
I saw a large meteor, can’t repeat that, can’t test it, there is no physical evidence of it, so does that mean it didn’t exist and that it didn’t happen? No, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, who's saying that? If you were the only one who saw it then there isn't sufficient evidence for the rest of us that a meteor was there, why is this so hard to comprehend? But were not talking about meteors, were talking about something that has never had any acceptable evidence put forward. So if you said you saw god, would you really expect me to accept god exists based on that alone? Do you accept the existence of the Loch Ness Monster because someone saw it? I doubt it. Evidence matters, you either have it or you don't. No evidence = no acceptance. But tell us, what evidence of a creator is there that means you accept the notion?
He can’t have RAZD being different He accepts it, he just disagrees with it, sweet jesu this is a forum for debate. What do you think happens here? Mark
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
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