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Author Topic:   Statistical analysis of tree rings
Percy
Member
Posts: 22505
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 9 of 34 (503817)
03-22-2009 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by JonF
03-21-2009 2:51 PM


I'm just now coming up to speed on this topic. Here's that link to the data table, but I can't see how you know they're for bristle cone pines:
At the same website is a text file describing the analysis method and the file formats:
Apparently you cannot just take the raw numbers and get valid results:
For example, a typical sample might display exponentially declining growth with age, the classic biological growth curve. Standardizing this sample using a negative exponential function results in data values which represent the departure from the "expected" value for a given year. This departure from the expected mean value is then used to interpret a proxy signal in the data.
It doesn't appear that Daniel made any attempt to apply this correction, but looking at the raw data I confess I can't see much correlation just by looking. If I were given the raw data but without the decades in the second column I doubt I could figure out they were describing the same years.
--Percy
Edited by Percy, : Grammar.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by JonF, posted 03-21-2009 2:51 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by RAZD, posted 03-22-2009 5:47 PM Percy has not replied
 Message 14 by Daniel4140, posted 03-22-2009 7:06 PM Percy has not replied
 Message 16 by JonF, posted 03-22-2009 7:51 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22505
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 18 of 34 (503845)
03-22-2009 7:59 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by JonF
03-22-2009 7:51 PM


Check out Message 14. It's a reply to me, but I think it was intended for you.
Why does he think a moving average is helpful? It seems like that would remove the detail necessary for finding correlations.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by JonF, posted 03-22-2009 7:51 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by JonF, posted 03-22-2009 8:13 PM Percy has not replied
 Message 20 by lyx2no, posted 03-22-2009 9:21 PM Percy has not replied
 Message 21 by RAZD, posted 03-22-2009 9:26 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22505
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 23 of 34 (503882)
03-23-2009 4:36 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by RAZD
03-22-2009 9:26 PM


RAZD writes:
He may be confusing methodology for 14C with that for tree ring counting.
Could be. He seems to like playing with numbers willy-nilly, sort of like numerology applied to tree ring widths.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by RAZD, posted 03-22-2009 9:26 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22505
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 26 of 34 (504044)
03-24-2009 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Daniel4140
03-24-2009 1:15 AM


Daniel,
It might be hard to tell, but we're actually delighted that you're interested in analyzing the raw data. But it has to be a rational analysis, and you can't keep interjecting unsupported conclusions without losing all pretense of objectivity.
Developing your own analysis techniques from scratch isn't likely to bear fruit, but if you want to continue trying then we'll continue giving you feedback about whether you seem to be doing anything meaningful.
But you might be better off seeking flaws in existing analysis approaches. For instance, you could use the tree ring specialists own analysis software and seek contradictions, such as sequences of known date that correlate with tree ring sequences of other known, but different, dates. Or perhaps you could show that they're too lenient in the degree of correlation they seek.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Daniel4140, posted 03-24-2009 1:15 AM Daniel4140 has not replied

  
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