A Designer Consistent with the Physical Evidence

Both Taq, and lyx2no are trying to debate here that the design of our bodies is imperfect because bad things can happen to us. That insinuates that a perfect design would not allow anything bad to happen to us. (that is also a subjective view, not an objective one)So tell me, is light a bad design if there is dark? How would we even know that light was good, unless we experienced the dark?Edited by riVeRraT, : spelling

To hunt for food that would not exist without light.

That is in no way the objective definition of a perfectly designed human. It is your subjective opinion, and nothing more. That is 100% correct. There are, and have been many of millions of people who had to learn things the hard way, sometimes resulting in death. I learned many things in my life the hard way.Again, good, and bad are subjective views.

Yes, we are free to worship anything we want to, and believe in anything we want to. Believing in nothing, is still a belief. You read the book, go through life, and then decide for yourself. For some time I believed just for the sake of believing. Then I had an awakening, and I believe it was from God. In other religions, you do not have the Holy Spirit. The Spirit is the means by which God communicates with us. I thought it was bullshit until I felt it. Ever since that day, I have felt it for the last 6 years. One second after I felt it, my whole life changed, objectively, and subjectively. Many of the words in the bible now made sense to me.There is no way to prove it to anyone. I can only take that feeling I had, the love that I felt, and continue to feel, and then share it with others. I cannot bring people to God, or punish people for not believing in Him. God brings you to Him, not the other way around. All I can do is what I think He is asking of me. Of course my physical body questions it, and there is always doubt, but so far, I have no reall good reason to stop believing. If I did stop believing, I would have to have my head examined because of what I have been experiencing these last 6 years.It's very confusing, and it's hard for me to sum it up in a few words in a forum. That is what the bible is for. I see people take what is there and use it for bad. I see people get confused by it. I see religion get it wrong on many occasion. I have a reputation in my church for ruining the imaginary party sometimes, and bringing people back down to earth.Oh, and I wanted to tell you, that when I look at a bacteria flagellum, I see something that looks designed. There is an attempt to explain the evolution of it. But there are obvious pieces of the puzzle missing.I also think it is a possibility that we were designed to evolve, with RNA being like blueprints and all, who knows. Either way, it is beyond amazing all the life that is here on earth, and how ever it came to be is mind boggling. To think it is just random, could be considered crazy thinking as well. Intelligent life from random events, and stuff that just happens to exist.

Well this is my whole point. I am also sorry if I got your argument wrong.You have stated a few things. All referring to "bad design". But you have not stated what our function should be. I am debating that we cannot know our function, or God's intended function for our bodies. Therefor it is impossible to contemplate whether our design is bad or not.So what is our function? Why is the infant evil? That is a prejudice statement right there.
Again, if we do not know the function, how do we determine that the infant's death is bad?
For someone with absolutely no faith, and only believes in worldly things, the death would appear to be bad. That is really what it all comes down to.

No, that's my point. No one does.

Everyone on this board is confused. If you don't admit it, you are a liar. Only thing with you accusing me, as apposed to me admitting it, is that you mean it as an insult. A sure sign that someone is scared and confused. If you have to resort to insults, and illogical arguments, then you shouldn't be participating.It is also in the forum rules, that if you make an accusation, you need to back it up. But to understand the bible completely, you need to have first read it, and studied it, and then read through this whole forum, and my 5000+ posts to fully understand my confusion. Then get back to us.

I may have expressed that to generally, my believing for the sake of believing. Let me clarify. But it is off-topic, so sorry for that.For the first 25 years of my life, I did not know what to believe. I knew that the Catholic religion by which I was raised was full of crap, but thought that there was a possibility of a creator. As you sit around with your friends as a teenager, and ponder it, maybe stoned at the time, you all think it is a possibility, just not the one that religion presents. In other words, we all have our own personal god.I think that is the first step in having a relationship with God.Then on the birth of my first child, I started to read the bible. I thought that all of the things that Jesus said (the red letters) made perfect sense to me. He also tells us to believe by faith. So I did. I claimed I believed, and I didn't make any real changes in my life. I only asked God to reveal Himself to me.Then 13 years after that, I believe God did reveal a small part of Himself to me, and forever my life is changed (or tweaked).
I just want to believe in God, and "keep it real". I understand what Jesus teaches us. I don't always follow it, but I try. There is always much to learn. I did not imply that. In the same post, I stated that RNA was like a blue print. Maybe, but I haven't said anything too outrageous. No more outrageous than saying everything is random.You could be calling something random (life) because of our limited perception on life.

I never implied that. How could I? If everything was designed to occur naturally, and what appears to be random. You might want to re-think that position.
From wiki:
As described above, there is universal agreement that quantum mechanics appears random, in the sense that all experimental results yet uncovered can be predicted and understood in the framework of quantum mechanics measurements being fundamentally random. Nevertheless, it is not settled whether this is true, fundamental randomness, or merely "emergent" randomness resulting from underlying hidden variables which deterministically cause measurement results to happen a certain way each time. This continues to be an area of active research. Well the structure was either random or not. Um, no. It's just not known at this point. That does not make it random. Things may or may not have been created "just because". That is a completely false statement. I believe in God. I can't know if God is omnipotent, omnisient, and I certainly do not think He is undetectable.There is no way I know if held evidence of His existence. WE do have the bible which explains much of what He expects, and how to know Him. In scientific terms, knowing Him is subjective. Just because something is subjective, does not mean it does not exist.

Um, no. I just never heard of a rock star drowning in his/her own vomit unless they were drugged out. You tend to assume to much, judge motives, and over analyze things, don't you? I mean that in a good way. I don't deny Him, I just can't tell you what to believe.

There is no need to LOL, and lyx2no did a poor job a representing my position. His version of my representation is a biased one. My answer are 100% relevant.Why don't we focus on the statement I made regarding our design purpose. To fully understand, or to be able to make a comment whether our design is good or bad, we must first determine what our design purpose is.According to the bible, we live, and we die. We can also live eternally (regardless of how you think that happens). So if we live eternally in heaven, in a perfect place, then our design must be that of learning how to be there, and appreciate it. I life being consistent with that thought. Life is one long lesson, be it good or bad in our opinions.So I conclude that the design is perfect, and I do not fully understand God. But God has given me enough clues to piece at least that much together.Either way God leaves us with the choice, and faith.

I didn't do that either. Thanks, I love being out of my mind!They say that God knows everything before it happens. So some will logically (illogically) conclude that we are not in control of our destiny. But if God created us with free will, and the ability to make choices, then things can just occur naturally. But they were designed to be random.i.e. I can create basic programming on a computer that appears to be random. Yes, I am aware of that, I was just pointing out the possibility, and re-enforcing the fact that we do not know nearly enough to even be discussing this effectively. Like a tree in the wind. There is no evidence, subjective or objective of a pink unicorn. But it may still exist. I think if you can imagine something, then there is a possibility of it's existence.It's not about existence being yes/no, on/off, it's about levels of faith, percentage. It is not guaranteed that the sun will rise tomorrow, but I have almost 100% faith that it will. There is no evidence of a pink unicorn, but I have .000000001% faith that it could exist. Then there is everything in between.Everything requires faith. That is the world which was created for us. My faith in God is not 100%, if I said it was, I would be lying. God created us to doubt, and tests us all the time. It's just part of life. To argue about it, and try to reason God away with one another, is pointless to me. There will always be a battleground in my mind, and in yours too.The pink unicorn, or santa claus or any other fictional creature arguement is not a viable reason to not believe in God. Each one has it's own set of circumstances, and if you are to be logical about it, and approach it from a scientific method point of view, each one would have it's own set of tests. It is only after the tests that we could conclude if there was similarities in the fiction of it.The pink unicorn, and God have nothing in common.I am tired of so called logical thinkers here using that argument. They must be teaching it to you in school.Edited by riVeRraT, : No reason given.