A Designer Consistent with the Physical Evidence

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Do others agree with my assessment? Or, should I raise or lower some of the gauges?

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I realize that there are potentially many possible combinations of attributes, but I only want to discuss the maximum (simply because the Designer is generally treated in the superlative).

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RT: Being so inferior it is like give God an IQ test by dummies.

Continuing with the theme of this thread..We can only speculate on the maximum abilities of God. He is not locked up in a room as a test subject, and so we could only use indirect methods to crudely estimate his abilities.To show our mental lack of ability to estimate God, we can't even agree on what is natural, what is life, what is design, what is reality.So much of our reality is a masterfully created illusion that the human mind gets stuck in the endless loops of circular reasoning.If you manage to brake out of the box of circular reasoning in one area you may still have other battles to win to fully understand the magnitude of our circular thought limitations we naturally create for ourselves.Life is not natural - but you can't tell that to a child or most people. Even in a science forum like this some just can't get it. Life is a masterfully created illusion - and it does not depend on what you belief or not. It does not care if you can understand that fact ever within you life time or not. You were created to Believe in the illusion, designed to see the illusion as a "fact of reality".Being such fools as we are - by design of course - how could we effectively know the mind of God and his true potential?Most of us can't even know what life truly is as a starting point of understanding, never mind the great creator of the whole universe.

Sorry I'm late getting back, lost the link/ address.. In playing mind games with some friends of mine, I would ask the question "what is life", and after giving the Text book definition, I point out what Respire / respiration does sound a lot like a mechanical device. You know like a car, the Gas goes in, the machine turns and compresses the gas and air the it ignites the fuel, and pow the work is done, the pistons arm pushes out.So in the same way respire sound so much just like that. If that turns out to be all that "life" is then we are all fools and life is not real and we are just machines "THINKING" are "living".Can anyone (dare try) really find the magical difference between man and machine. Is there any real magic in life that machines can never have. Give me that kind of definition of life if you can.Basically is the function of metabolising a mechanical act or something magical only to life? I say there is no life here, no magic, just basic mechanical functions of a machine.Dare to bet on this one???

If you did a public survey of what is life and why is it different from a machine. It becomes painfully apparent that this is beyond the human emotion and imagination too. At lest at the start.Just saying such things requires a whole lot of faith, that’s faith in modern science just because we are not self-aware of this fact our selves

I see a machine (called life) so I call it a machine!
The thread is about the creator - And if that's religious to you then that is the way it is.

That thought was regards to God almighty - what are his limited / maximums. So as fools that we are, we're not in a good state for ever knowing things like that, that far up over our little heads.
God can not be measured by little man, for if we did, it would mean so little to anyone hearing it and not understanding it at all.Even the bible says it is impossible to know the ways of the universal creator from start to finish. Like measuring and never getting to the end just to get a final reading.

Thanks for those kind words of insight. Your logic answered your own question for me. Let me point out your insightful words of wisdom. If life has nothing supernatural about it, has nothing special, nothing greater then even bio-machinery on the molecular level. Then I truly have won this debate hands down. If man is non-supernatural, just a cleverly designed machine, programmed and built to "think" he is alive. This is what true modern science can test for, can understand, and is in the true realm of acceptable science theory today.Everyday science just to understand an everyday mechanical machine that would have us believe it is truly "alive".

I don't really care. I don't expect the "hells angels" to feed the sick and the elderly, though it would be a great thing indeed.And I don't expect this ungodly system of things to Preach "righteousness", though we could all use some...Man is a machine, Nature is mechanical, and all life is a carefully disgusted illusion made from technological superiority.Wakeey, wakeey....

Well when you find out your "universe" is constructed on many layers of artificial "realities", from physical matter, all the way up to artificial "life" and this additional illusion of "nature" being natural.One starts to get a little rattled just thinking about it. Yes it does change your views on "realities". It's like winning a million dollars just to find out they've given you only fonny money.
Everything is seen differently, everything shows an up front implied purpose, yet the underlying functions speak of another reality with an artificially created one.

Why is it you always think intelligence must be SUPERNATURAL.
Are all creatures with some level of intelligence now to be called supernatural by "scientists".
Why is it you think we can not prove it was intelligently designed, just because you think intelligence must be supernatural and therefore impossible to prove?If you can't identify something intelligently designed then the problem is with you, not with the evidence, or the existence of the creator that designed it. This all starts with you more then it does with God almighty. If your a complete "X%#@$&*" then all the evidence in the whole universe is meaningless if the hearer can't understand what is being stated.So proving intelligent design is more an IQ test for you, then it is a problem of lack of evidence. If you can't understand the simplicity of the question so as to see the simplicity of the answer right in front of you. Then your the defect as regards logic and not the evidence.Well, of course not all persons have a logical argument, but this is not the case here is it. You just can't see so you think I am the blind one.

If you know anything at all about quantum mechanics - you know it is a theory that everything has a reason for existing. If there is weight, then there must be something creating this effect, a particle or something creating the effect of mass.
Based on this thought, we have gravity so there might be a graviton, and so on.
You see, none of these things are normal. There must be some field creating this force and in turn these effects. Nothing is taken for granted anymore. Just as colour does not exist but is the invention of the human minds wiring, which makes colours really artificial because they do not exist in the real world outside the mind.So it is with life - which it seems real to the mind of the beholder but is proven false by science, as only bio-machinery. So life is artificial in the fact it is only seems real to the human mind of the person doing the thinking and feeling of information senses. The reality is quite different then what the human mind perceives.Matter is artificial too for there is this optical illusion of it being solid, colourful, hard, etc. Yet the true reality is quite different as well. We are finely tuned to see the world (matter) this way.
So none of this is natural for the true reality is truly different then what we see and what we think it is.
We only get the optical illusion and not the true reality.

Yes at first it might cross ones mind that all becomes meaningless but that is not the case. For one, man really wouldn't have found out how he was made it Adam and Eve were still in the garden. Man might not have dug so deep into science because the need was never there to care. So if we never did find out, then it would never disturb us, ever. But someone just had to ask and someone just had to find the answer and now we’re stuck knowing too much for our own good.
God must regret that we came to this point of knowing this much, but it does prove there is a creator of superior intelligence.So thinking God might now be irrelevant can not change our everyday reality. I still must living be the rules, stop when the cop says stop. Still love my wife, say hi to the neighbours, and still call the parents to see if their doing ok.I still go to "church" and I still "pray" / Talk to my loving heavenly Father (God) and thank him for the "life" I am blessed to have. My prospective and word definitions have changed quite a bit, but I still must go to work, pay the bills, and gas up the car.I may be stuck in this artificial created reality but it's not so bad. I enjoy "life" and this artificial "life" is just like the real thing, except that real life might not be possible and this is as good as it gets.So the question keeps coming up - what is life? Can life truly exist if it is not normal to exist or must an artificial form be created to simulate what can not exist in "nature /reality".So are we just simulated forms of un-nature entities, impossible realities, just an artificial creation of someone’s great imagination of things that can not truly exist.

I would say God is able to max the charts. We are unable to know so much and our view of reality is greatly restricted by our limited design of our senses. Even our mind is limited in the complexity of our understanding. We can only understand things in our personal experience.The full scope of the universe is just a small sample of his power.
The understanding of matter and so-called living systems looking more like artificial realities that could never exist naturally.Programming systems with love and joy, wisdom, intelligence and the so-called sex life of every kind of creature speaks of the kind of person he is inside. At lest what we can understand as limited humans.Like I said everything about the creator is way off the charts. We can't even fully read the DNA coded software with understanding. But how could we, it is technological supremacy.

Simplicity of the argument works best. This linking "intelligent design" with the un-knowable supernatural is just the Atheist's way to derail the argument and cloud the real issues."Intelligence" does not equal supernatural nor does "intelligent design" even suggest you must be supernatural.So you keep forgetting what this debate is really about. It is intelligent design, not the existence of the supernatural, and a un-knowable God.So to sum it up, there is TONS of evidence of intelligent design. The "supernatural" is another story for another day....not related to this one.

The questions you are now asking are of a religious nature, and have little or nothing to do with science because what your asking is out of our grasp to achieve at this time.Its like the theory of black holes in 1905+, looks good on paper but do they really exist? No one knows yet and so it was unproven at that early time. Now it is because of the side effects it creates.Intelligent design is the end result of great intellect. End of story.
Something that is said to be supernatural is only because of our great ignorance to understand what is going on - so the mystery.
It is not that these things do not exist, just that they are over our heads for now. So we work with what we do have and infer to some extent other things till better information comes around.For now we can prove there is intelligence out there that likes to create. Religion does the rest for now like prayer and answered prayers that infer someone is listening and answering.