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Author Topic:   On The Observability of Speciation
pandion
Member (Idle past 3021 days)
Posts: 166
From: Houston
Joined: 04-06-2009


Message 12 of 17 (505054)
04-07-2009 1:22 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by AustinG
04-06-2009 2:56 PM


Re: Ring species
AustinG writes:
New species are found frequently. Are they newly evolved or just newly found?
Newly found for the most part. In spite of CosmicChimp's discussion, there doesn't exist even one example of what he proposes. While saltation caused by the mutation of HOX genes or other controlling genes is plausible, at this point it is only hypothetical.
It is said that if you wish to discover a new species, you only need to shake a tree in the Amazon rain forest and describe what falls out.

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 Message 4 by AustinG, posted 04-06-2009 2:56 PM AustinG has not replied

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 Message 13 by RAZD, posted 04-07-2009 10:32 PM pandion has replied

  
pandion
Member (Idle past 3021 days)
Posts: 166
From: Houston
Joined: 04-06-2009


Message 14 of 17 (505134)
04-08-2009 12:29 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by RAZD
04-07-2009 10:32 PM


Re: Ring species
while not necessarily due to "HOX genes or other controlling genes" there are many examples of saltationist speciation through polyploidy, most common in plants, but not unknown in animals. Polyploidy involves the sudden duplication of chromosomes that make interbreeding between parent and daughter population impossible, thus speciation has occurred.
You are correct. But I'm not a botany kind of guy. I endured my botany classes and it has affected my views of evolutionary biology. Of course polyploidy in plants can cause a new species in two generations. Sometimes it is genome duplication in a single species that produces a 3n offspring. While it is unlikely that such an offspring could breed with the parent, in self fertilizing plants, this isn't a problem. There is also the hybridization between two related species. While such crosses are generally sterile, sometimes such plants are actually inter-fertile. As I recall, wheat is the result of a cross between a 1n grass and a 2n grass, producing 3n wheat.
This has been observed in the field under controlled conditions, and in the lab.
In fact, I believe that it has been induced in the field and the lab.
However, what I had in mind was the experiment in which the genome of a shrimp was altered in a laboratory experiment. The result was that the the production of abdominal appendages (swimmerets) in offspring was suppressed. A similar mutation would be necessary in the transition from crustacean to insect and arachnid.

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pandion
Member (Idle past 3021 days)
Posts: 166
From: Houston
Joined: 04-06-2009


Message 15 of 17 (505135)
04-08-2009 12:42 AM


I can't support this from literature, I just remember reading about it somewhere.
Drosophila (fruit flies) are used used as subjects in many genetic studies. The original flies were captured in California and then propagated artificially for generations. It seems that these artificially maintained lab strains have speciated more than once. While they may be indistinguishable in appearance, there are several laboratory strains that no longer interbreed. Moreover, they no longer interbreed with the original population.
I wish I had made a note of where I read that. I have searched several times since, but have not been able to find it. It is plausible, but I can't actually cite a reliable source.

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