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Author | Topic: Why is the Intelligent Designer so inept? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coragyps Member (Idle past 755 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
You forgot (12): avoid wearing clothing made of mixed fibres. Freakin' essential to a healthy life, Buz.
What absurdity! Where the hell does the Pentateuch warn about high cholesterol? Or tell how to treat melanomas? "The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD
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Rahvin Member Posts: 4039 Joined: Member Rating: 8.2 |
Again, it is the ignorance and departure from the designer's precepts and not the incompetence of the designer that becomes problematic for the creature as the creature is designed. So, exactly how is "ignorance and departure from the designer's precepts" responsible for my tailbone, or my appendix? What is the mechanism by which "ignorance and departure from the designer's precepts" results in such flaws? This is a very popular claim, Buz, but it doesn't actually explain anything. It's a bare assertion used by apologetics to rationalize your bullshit beliefs with reality, and to any party with an IQ above freezing, it's obviously devoid of any explanatory value, completely untestable, and wholly detached from reality.
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DrJones* Member Posts: 2285 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 7.4 |
Where in the bible would I find:
a. recommended daily intake of Vitamin A? b. maximum lifetime exposure to radiation? c. the procedure to replace a faulty OEM part? soon I discovered that this rock thing was true Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world And so there was only one thing I could do Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On *not an actual doctor
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Straggler Member Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Why do we hiccup? There is an evolutionary explanation for hiccups but I wondered what creationist/IDist make of this phenomenon.
This latest theory, originally published in the journal BioEssays and reported in New Scientist magazine, says the key to hiccuping lies in a group of animals for whom combining closure of the glottis and contraction of the "breathing in" muscles does serve a clear purpose. They are the primitive air breathers, such as lungfish, gar and many amphibians that still possess gills. These creatures push water across their gills by squeezing their mouth cavity while closing the glottis to stop water getting into their lungs. From BBC NEWS | Health | Why we hiccup Basically according to evolutionary theory hiccups are a result of our amphibious ancestry. What is the creationist/IDist take on why humans hiccup?
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Blue Jay Member (Idle past 2719 days) Posts: 2843 From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts Joined: |
Hi, DrJones.
DrJones writes: Where in the bible would I find:a. recommended daily intake of Vitamin A? b. maximum lifetime exposure to radiation? c. the procedure to replace a faulty OEM part? It's somewhere in Isaiah. You can basically make Isaiah's prophecies mean anything you want them to mean. That's why we Christians decided to leave him in there. {Content hidden. This is like the topic irrelevant chit-chat that induced me to close the topic earlier. - Adminnemooseus} Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Hid content and added comment. -Bluejay Darwin loves you.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Coragyps writes: What absurdity! Where the hell does the Pentateuch warn about high cholesterol? Or tell how to treat melanomas? The OT is loaded with the pros and cons of wine. In the NT the apostle Paul wisely advised young Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach's sake and his often infirmities. Lo and behold, modern science has discovered the resveratrol and other aspects of the red wine which nicely stabilize the cholesterol to the consistency which the body requires. The enzymes in the natural processing etc all work for good natural health as was designed so masterfully. Btw, the designer's wine was intended to be grown on land which was fertilized with the dung of all living on the land. It was not intended to be produced for more $$ by adding such harmful chemicals as nitrites to speed up the processing. Relative to colerterol, your natural grass feed red meats and your natural eggs have inbuilt properties which eliminate the problems we moderns are experiencing. There is less $$ profits in growing and producing natural foods as designed. The designer shouldn't be blamed for the greed of our food growers and processors. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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Rahvin Member Posts: 4039 Joined: Member Rating: 8.2 |
The OT is loaded with the pros and cons of wine. In the NT the apostle Paul wisely advised young Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach's sake and his often infirmities. Lo and behold, modern science has discovered the resveratrol and other aspects of the red wine which nicely stabilize the cholesterol to the consistency which the body requires. The enzymes in the natural processing etc all work for good natural health as was designed so masterfully. Btw, the designer's wine was intended to be grown on land which was fertilized with the dung of all living on the land. It was not intended to be produced for more $$ by adding such harmful chemicals as nitrites to speed up the processing. Relative to colerterol, your natural grass feed red meats and your natural eggs have inbuilt properties which eliminate the problems we moderns are experiencing. There is less $$ profits in growing and producing natural foods as designed. The designer shouldn't be blamed for the greed of our food growers and processors. Actually, Buz, the reason ancient peoples drank wine was the alcohol content. you see, they didnt know about those germ things swimming around in ye olde water well, and dysentary kills. The alcohol content of wine made wine quite literally safer to drink than water. Your apologetic bullshit about a designer for wine is simple nonsense - the Biblical characters had no way of knowing about such things as cholesterol. What they did know is that drinking water sometimes gives you a lethal case of diarrhea, and wine doesn't. Your natural foods BS is not only off-topic, it's wrong. You do know why we use pesticides and other "unnatural" treatments for foods, right? It's becasue the natural stuff can kill us. Why does your all-wise "designer" make milk need to be pasteurized? Why does meat need to be cooked so thoroughly? More bullshit about how we've abandoned the designer's plans and these are the results?
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Agobot Member (Idle past 5551 days) Posts: 786 Joined: |
cavediver writes: Why should us bipeds have to put up with a skeletel structure that designed for walking on all fours? Did God force us into second-hand body-plans post-fall, just so that we could enjoy the delights of back-pain? Maybe it's for added realism in a world that's supposed to be made completely by chance and so that humans would believe in this theory. I don't think if god made himself known to us, we'd all be happy about it. Wouldn't we want to have our own separate lives independent of God? Would we have the desire to live the life of someone else(God/Creator) with no air of human free will?I know i am making god a lier, but i don't subscribe to the biblical(or any religious) god, so in my eyes the Intelligent Agent seems to be a good lier. Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.
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Kevin123 Junior Member (Idle past 5091 days) Posts: 23 From: Texas, USA Joined: |
Who says the intelligent agent was a perfect being? It could just as easily have been a mad alien scientist (judging by human behavior mad scientist may be the best assumtption)
A perfect being is not necessary to argue for the theory of intelligent design. As for calling the agent an idot...well he, she or it was a lot smarter than humans are now since we can't even replicate creation of a living cell. The fact is that creationism is a much better observable theory than evolution. Creation can be observed when intelligent agents (both humans and animals) arrange items into a purposefull system. Evolution of complex systems such as plants, animals or even a single living cell from random particles has never been observed. The argument that creationism must be false because the created object isn't perfect is like arguing that my computer was not created because it keeps crashing and therefore isn't perfect.
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cavediver Member (Idle past 3664 days) Posts: 4129 From: UK Joined: |
So, are you postulating an infinite regress of intelligent yet imperfect beings successively creating new biospheres (or entire universes)? Or have you some other idea as to how life could originally arise?
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Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 3.8 |
Hi Kevin123 and welcome to EvC,
Who says the intelligent agent was a perfect being? It could just as easily have been a mad alien scientist (judging by human behavior mad scientist may be the best assumtption) A perfect being is not necessary to argue for the theory of intelligent design. Agreed. Strange then, with so many possibilities, that the hypothesis of choice amongst ID advocates for the identity of the designer should be God. Who do you suspect the designer to be, Kevin123?
As for calling the agent an idot...well he, she or it was a lot smarter than humans are now since we can't even replicate creation of a living cell. And yet the designer, who could make living cells, also seems to have made many elementary design errors, that even we stupid humans can spot. Why did he gives us hips and lower backs that would make more sense in a quadruped? Why did he give us eyes that display such appalling flaws as near/far sightedness and blind spots? Much has already been made in this thread of the comparative high quality of octopus eyes. Clearly the designer could have done better with human eyes. Why did he give us such poor quality optical equipment? Does he not like us or something? What about genetic illness? Why include conditions such as sickle cell or fragile-X syndrome? Is that really an example of good design?
The fact is that creationism is a much better observable theory than evolution. Creation can be observed when intelligent agents (both humans and animals) arrange items into a purposeful system. A clearly false comparison. Proving that one thing is created does not prove that any other thing is created. Proving that humans design computers does nothing at all to prove that living organisms were designed.
Evolution of complex systems such as plants, animals or even a single living cell from random particles has never been observed. Short of a time machine and a multi-billion year life span, it is going to be quite hard to observe the evolution of a modern life form, all the way from a single cell. Just as well that we have the fossil record then, isn't it. When scientists can't observe an event directly, they look for evidence that the event may have left. Do you have some kind of a problem with that approach? One would hope not, since the supposed creation of life by The argument that creationism must be false because the created object isn't perfect is like arguing that my computer was not created because it keeps crashing and therefore isn't perfect. Except that's not quite what's being argued here. The issue at hand is the clear contradiction between the undoubted brilliance that would be necessary of the "designer" and the utter stupidity of his many mistakes. This glaring inconsistency doesn't really disprove ID altogether, but it certainly casts grave doubts upon it, especially for those ID'ers who would like to identify the designer as the perfect Christian god. Mutate and Survive "The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade
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ikabod Member (Idle past 4514 days) Posts: 365 From: UK Joined: |
hmm .. given all the bad design features , the inclusion toxins , germs , vermin , and other major nasties .. may be these are evidence for creation .. i mean they all sound very Old testemant like punishments ...
may be our hip and lower back design is there because someone worshiped a tree ... the duff eye for chatting to a outsider on the wrong day of the week and sickle cell et al must be due to taking a name in vain ... Would any creationist agree with these theories ? i mean it all fits from book one on through the OT ... if it is not wrath then why would a designer make such errors ?? was he/she/it in a rush , or watching the TV while creating ...??
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Agobot Member (Idle past 5551 days) Posts: 786 Joined: |
cavediver writes: He's either an idiot, or for a deity, remarkably hard-up when it comes to paying for design plans. For the sake of clairty, you forgot to include that he's an idiot for creating so many young earth creationists.
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JGBurgess Junior Member (Idle past 5483 days) Posts: 1 From: Cape Town, South Africa Joined: |
The author of this topic is evidently ill-informed of the Bible.
We believe that the world before the Fall had no death, disease or suffering, as God proclaimed the finished creation "very good" (Gen 1:31) Post Fall, we have continued to acquire genetic defects as a result of duplication or deletion of genetic code - accounting for the many hereditary problems that we have today. Physical defects are not evidence for an inept Creator but are instead explained as the by-product of Sin.
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Percy Member Posts: 22480 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
JGBurgess writes: Physical defects are not evidence for an inept Creator but are instead explained as the by-product of Sin. This sounds like a testable hypothesis. Is there any evidence supporting it? --Percy
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