Are we prisoners of sin

Except that he didn't know good from evil, as he hadn't committed the sin of partaking of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

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7And the eyes of them both were opened,
  —Gen 3:7"

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The story of the tree of knowledge is clearly about humanity coming to knowledge, reason, and independent function. In fact, by partaking of the fruit, we became as gods, with the exception of immortality.'

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22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
  —Gen 3:22"

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Wrong. The LDS Church does indeed teach from the Bible from childhood, to adulthood. It is also LDS doctrine that Jesus is the Messiah, and that the only way to salvation is through His atonement. I certainly hope you put more effort into learning about a subject before you have the audacity to assert yourself as informed on said subject.

I'm sorry, but as Rahvin just stated... you are wrong. Your refusal to accept the fact that you are wrong on such a simple and verifiable fact shows your overall regard for the acquisition of knowledge in general. I guarantee you that if I started a thread within an LDS forum asking "Do you use the Bible as a member of the LDS Church, and believe it to be an inspired work" The answers would be an overwhelming "Yes".Sorry Peg, another strike against your preconceptions.

Excellent post DevilsAdvocate,I could have gone through all that trouble, but I didn't feel the need. Pretty crazy when an Atheist is defending a christian faith's belief from another christian's misconception of it. lol

Typical tactic. Instead of facing the truth and admitting error, you change the subject. Admit you were wrong, and I will answer your questions.Edited by Michamus, : typo corrected

Yes, you are wrong about that. The LDS Church uses the BoM in conjunction with the Bible. This has even been quoted to you DIRECTLY FROM THE LDS SITE. I want you to name 3 things that the Book of Mormon CONTRADICTS the Bible on. (Not simply a different interpretation of the same perceived truth) I went to the LDS site, and you know what the three cornerstones I saw were?
"Teaching true doctrine"
"Faith in Christ"
"Strong Families"So, which of these is contrary to Christian beliefs? Wrong again. I can't believe how confident you can be in your perception of something you obviously have no knowledge of.
The Eight Witnesses of the Gold Plates
Once again, all I had to do was go to LDS.org, type in "witnesses of the plates", and I got this result on the FIRST LINE. Who have all been dead for 2,000 years. Not to mention the youngest gospel was written in 70AD, which would mean the writer would have been in his 70s. It is very unlikely that even the wealthiest survived to this age. Not to mention the apostles were eradicated within the NT.Edited by Michamus, : Minor BBcode correctionsEdited by Michamus, : Fixed Redundant Section

You have really got me rolling on the floor laughing now... To which you replied: Call me crazy, but I don't think Joseph Smith is the Book of Mormon. You are really having difficulty admitting you are wrong on this, aren't you?

Why didn't you provide the verse, or translation of this passage? I was able to look it up, nonetheless, but you aren't providing transparency.

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KJV Matt 7:9-11
9 Or what man is there among you whom, if his son ask for bread, will give him a stone?

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10 Or if he ask for a fish, will give him a serpent?

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11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father who is in Heaven give good things to them that ask Him?

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It's pretty obvious here that Jesus isn't calling anyone evil, otherwise he wouldn't have used the word "if".The implied message is that parents rarely withhold gifts from their children. Even wicked individuals are capable of giving good gifts to their children.Jesus goes on to have the crowd then imagine what the super-benevolent, super-awesome father of mankind can give you!The message is clear, God is our Father, and he wants to provide for us.

ummm, no. Jesus clearly states "if". Also, man is obviously capable of becoming blameless before God (and even perfect) without Jesus:

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Job 1:1
There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

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This verse alone clearly demonstrates that salvation can be achieved without a savior. In fact, in this very book Job endures the punishments sent him in perfect form, glorifying God throughout. These actions are then rewarded by God.

We don't have to assume, the very verse itself clearly states he was a perfect man.

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whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright,

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There is no way to reconcile it, this is what is referred to as a blatant contradiction.

Hi Phage0070,I don't believe my post had anything to do with what you just stated. The topic in this thread I believe is whether we are "prisoners of sin", and not "was Job's reward worthy of the affliction".Now if you want to create a separate topic on the morality of God within the story of Job, go ahead. I'm afraid though that it will be very boring for you and I, as we will both more than likely agree.

Hmmm, so then those passages you quoted don't contradict?

So then in Job, when it says Job was a perfect man that stood upright and blameless before God... what it was really saying was Job was a sinner that needed Jesus Christ as a savior so he can stand blameless before God?I find it interesting how far some will go to defend their ill conceived concepts. It appears to me you are more interested in fitting what you think the Bible should say, into these passages, than finding out what they do say. You should do neither. As a Bible believing Christian you should actually be looking at what the prophets of old felt compelled to write down. This whole "God's word" concept is completely unfounded, and a direct result of the canonization process utilized by Ancient Rome in a last ditch effort to unify "The Empire".I would prefer you utilize your God-given logic, and reason while attempting to come to an understanding of the true nature of our universe, and our own species.

Oh my, did you really just quote Eliphaz the Temanite's rebuttal to Job as a statement from God? Eliphaz was obviously rebutting this rhetorical question from Job:

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Job 13:23 How many are mine iniquities and sins? make me to know my transgression and my sin.

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In fact, if you go to Chapter 16, you get to see what Job thinks of Eliphaz's statement you just quoted:

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Job 16:
1Then Job answered and said,
2I have heard many such things: miserable comforters are ye all.
3Shall vain words have an end? or what emboldeneth thee that thou answerest?

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I believe I have once again met this challenge. That's pretty funny. I have attended 4 years of seminary, including 8 years of Sunday school, which at least one member of this forum can verify. I have read the Bible dozens of times.
I believe I have demonstrated my qualifications in discrediting yours, and Peg's claims thoroughly.This is yet another example of you trying to assert some type of authority that you do not have.This is also, yet another example of you cherry picking specific verses, so that it appears the general message of the passages agree with your warped interpretation thereof.

ROFL! Okay guy... That's a good one. Talking about the pot calling the wedding dress black. Authoritative to who? You? How do you know Paul even wrote anything? As you just did as well... and that was thoroughly annihilated. AND CALLS IT VAIN, he even goes further in verse 4! I had a feeling I should have included verse 4, but I made the mistake of expecting you to look at the chapter yourself.

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Job16
4I also could speak as ye do: if your soul were in my soul's stead, I could heap up words against you, and shake mine head at you.

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Hmmm, the message is clear. Job says, "But I haven't done anything wrong". Heck even Job 1:1 agrees with him. His "friends" say he has sinned somehow, and Job replies succinctly with how easy it is to place blame, and that he builds men up with his words.He is OBVIOUSLY completely DISAGREEING with Eliphaz's view on the matter. But you refuse to see that, don't you? You would rather revert to Paulism than read what the passages actually say. I have 20 years of scripture study as well... what are the PROFESSIONAL qualifications which you -or- purpledawn -or- Peg hold?Once again, your attempt falls short.

This coming from the person with a needle and syringe representing Jesus as a drug...