Fulfillments of Bible Prophecy

The object of the thread was to show proof of biblical prophecy fulfilled.

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If the New Testament as the oracles of God says that Jesus was refered to in Isaiah 53, that is the end of the matter.

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Is not proof it is faith.

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Theodoric believes it or Theodoric doesn't. When an explicit claim is made that some passages refer to Christ which are in the Old Testament, if he doesn't accept that, what can you do for him?

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Believe me, the last thing I want is for something to be done for me.Typical christian prattle. You have no argument so resort to condescension.

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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But one has to make a decision eventually to decide that something has been proved.

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Not if proof has not been given. That would be silly.Various posters have rebutted your explanations for Isaiah. Therefore, you resorted to the old "if you accept Jesus you will see the proof" BS.
I guess none of us should be surprised.

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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Not surprised that you didn't take up the challenge to "prove" a generally accepted scientific concept of a heliocentric solarsystem.

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Not really on topic is it?
Start a new thread and we can hash it out.

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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At one point neither did they believe that Moses was going to lead them to the Promise Land. They were ready to stone him and return to slavery in Egypt.

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The only thing you have to prove this is the bible.

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They also rejected Jeremiah's prophecy that bad things would happen to the remnant of Jews if they attempted to flee to Egypt. In this case the a group of Jews went to Jeremiah and asked him to tell them what it was that God wanted them to do. After he returned from inquiring from God and told them, the flat out rejected it because it was not what they wanted to hear !

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"You didn't speak what God was saying!" they retorted. The account is very instructive - Jeremiah 34:15-30.

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Same as I said above. You can not use something to prove itself. There has to be some objective, external evidence to prove something. ANything else is just relying on faith.It is ok for you to do so, but don't expect others to.

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But before you hedge all your bets

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What bets do I have to hedge?

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

You are no longer even arguing the OP. You are preaching. If you want to preach you should go someplace else. Preaching is not something that is usually accepted here.Any chance you starting a thread on a Heliocentric Solar System? You seemed really excited to discuss it here.

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Hedging bets was an expression. My point was that the reader should not judge the entire matter of prophetic fulfillment simply on whether the Jews at large believed of not.

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First of all, I don't think that is what the saying means. If you use that expression you are implying that I have something to lose if I do not follow your argument. Second of all, Jewish people believing the prophecy or not is only a part of the argument against Isaiah being prophetic. Please do not misrepresent what I have said in previous posts.

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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And you wrote that "the last thing" you want anyone to do is to do something for you. So you're tell us up front, that though you're asking questions, you don't want answers provided.

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Oh now you are going to quote mine me. Yippeee!!!! As I have stated many times I am not going to accept your interpretations blindly you need to back them with something other than "I am right".

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I think my point is made with you. I'm not terribly impressed with your insistence of "proof" of fulfilled prophecy.

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If there is no proof why the hell should I believe you?

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Like a good student of the Jesus Seminar or some other pop culture skeptical task force, you simply move the goal post ad infinitum that something has not yet been proved.

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You really should know your audience. I think the Jesus Seminar is a joke. I am an atheist.

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What would constituted "proof" for you anyway? Just what would be proof for you that Isaiah 53 spoke concerning Jesus Christ. Exactly what would you accept as proof?

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Something that isn't vague or open too countless interpretaqtions. In other words Isaiah can never be considered a fulfilled prophecy. As has been shown in this thread it is too vague and there are to many parts of it that Jesus doesn't fit, or you have to do linguistic gymnastics for him to fit.

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

Nope.He needs to respond to the criticisms of his interpretations that this is a fulfilled prophecy. He repeats the same old things without addressing the criticsims in a meaningful manner.

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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However, we will not allow unbelievers to insist that a fulfillment of prophecy is not "universal" because they continue in unbelief.

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How righteous and damn condescending of you.

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He doesn't even believe he is a sinner. What right does such a person have to say that the redemptive death of Christ is not a universal fulfillment of prophecy?

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Right??? Right? CHristianity, or at least your version, can not be criticized? You self-righteous. It aint worth getting banned.

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Your unbelief in certain aspects of God's word does not qualify you to determine the non-unversality of prophecy.

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Your belief in certain aspects of some fantastical supernatural entitities supposed word does not qualify you to determine the universality of prophecy.

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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I know some claim that it was written after 70Ce but that claim is unfounded and has no evidence.

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The evidence seems overwhelming. What proof do you have to back up your assertions?

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

Again, I need to ask. Can you quite your preaching and try to defend your previous assertions.Your fundie website had no business being posted on the forum. It does nothing to bolster your argument. It does show that your true interest in coming here is to preachABE
Why is it that fundie websites all look like they were designed on AOL 10 years ago?Edited by Theodoric, : Editorial comment

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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there is extra-biblical testimonial to the fact that Jesus lived and died.

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Just because you say it doesn't make it true. Present the evidence.

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for extra-biblical testimony that Jesus rose from the dead

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Just because you say it doesn't make it true. Present the evidence.

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I have also see quite a bit of resistence to extra-biblical testimonial that Jesus was extraordinary and lived. Popular is the excuse that such historical testimonial was forged by Christians.

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What do you do?

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Present the evidence. That is what you do.

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

Preach to proclaim or make known by sermon Sermon a discourse for the purpose of religious instruction or exhortation, esp. one based on a text of Scripture and delivered by a member of the clergy as part of a religious service.Preaching and a sermon are not how you should validate your positions. Especially, when in a discussion with skeptics.

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Sorry some of you have nothing of which you're enthusiastic to proclaim to others.

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Are you "tolerant" or is it that you just don't have anything worth talking about enthusiastically?

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Do you even read the challenges people have made to you? They seem pretty enthusiastic to me. Or do you discount them because they challenge your superstitions?I like how you use your christianist buzzword "proclaim". Classic and typical.

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

So based on your reply to my request for evidence. You have none? I sure don't see any in your reply to me.Remember extra-biblical evidence for the life and death of this Jesus guy.I really don't understand what your last post even said. Just random sentences spouting christianist dogma.

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

You are the one that brought up extra biblical support for your arguments.Don't play the game that you can say anything and not back it up just because it is a bible study room. You are the one making the assertions. Either back them up, or admit that all you have are your beliefs.I can respect the fact that you believe it just because you believe, but dont try to spin a conversation. When you make an assertion or a claim you can either back it up or retract it.

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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I could be wrong. I think moderation is lenient when it comes to placing postings here which more appropriately seem suited to other rooms. Case in point - you harping of extra biblical evidence on fulfilled prophecy.

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If not then what else are we supposed to accept as evidence of prophecy fulfillment? Your word? Other passages in the bible? Have you not been reading this thread?There needs to be some sort of evidence or support outside of the bible in order for you to realistically claim that there is a fulfillment of a biblical prophecy.No preaching, no lame excuses, no PRATTS, like Josephus, Pliny(I have never seen it written as Pliney) or Phlegon. Give us some sort of evidence. Anything.

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts