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Member (Idle past 4929 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Fulfillments of Bible Prophecy | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
quote: Just because you say it doesn't make it true. Present the evidence.
quote: Just because you say it doesn't make it true. Present the evidence.
quote: Present the evidence. That is what you do. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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jaywill Member (Idle past 1941 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined: |
"Don't preach." I here that often from Internet Skeptics.
Sorry some of you have nothing of which you're enthusiastic to proclaim to others. Are you "tolerant" or is it that you just don't have anything worth talking about enthusiastically? This preacher is not accustomed to ignoring thougthful challenges or objections to my alledged "sermons". You guys preach too.
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jaywill Member (Idle past 1941 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined: |
Evidence that Jesus is the best referent to the whole chapter of Isaiah 53 has been given.
Extra-faith community testimnials may have a problem recognizing that there is any NEED for someone to be their sin offering.' At least they should recognize the JESUS thought so and conducted Himself and His teaching in such a manner as to fulfilled what Isaiah prophesied. Outside the Bible there is a whole civilization that recognizes at least that Jesus Came, Lived, Died, and taught of Himself in terms of what Isaiah predicted. They may have a vested interest to come short in admitting that Christ actually is the Servant of God. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
Preach to proclaim or make known by sermon
Sermon a discourse for the purpose of religious instruction or exhortation, esp. one based on a text of Scripture and delivered by a member of the clergy as part of a religious service. Preaching and a sermon are not how you should validate your positions. Especially, when in a discussion with skeptics.
quote: Do you even read the challenges people have made to you? They seem pretty enthusiastic to me. Or do you discount them because they challenge your superstitions? I like how you use your christianist buzzword "proclaim". Classic and typical. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
So based on your reply to my request for evidence. You have none? I sure don't see any in your reply to me.
Remember extra-biblical evidence for the life and death of this Jesus guy. I really don't understand what your last post even said. Just random sentences spouting christianist dogma. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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jaywill Member (Idle past 1941 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined: |
This Forum room is about What the Bible Really Means.
There are other rooms where historical reliability of Scripture is hashed out. Pliney, Phlegon, Josephus our extra-biblcal confirmers of the life of Jesus to a degree. I frequent this particular forum because my greater interest is What the Bible really means. In so discussing the prophecy matter I have made the case that Isaiah 53 means Jesus of Nazareth. My suspicion has long been that when things get quiet on this Forum, discusions really belonging on other Forums find there way over here to Bible Study to warm things up a little. I could be wrong. I think moderation is lenient when it comes to placing postings here which more appropriately seem suited to other rooms. Case in point - you harping of extra biblical evidence on fulfilled prophecy. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
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jaywill Member (Idle past 1941 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined: |
really don't understand what your last post even said. Just random sentences spouting christianist dogma. Dogma can be right sometimes. Dogma is not untrue, simply because it is dogma.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
Okay, maybe that problem of yours is too hard for me to solve. However, I don' think I will play into you hands and say because of your problem therefore prophecies in the Bible are unreliable in general. After a post where I stressed that I wasn't asking for you to 'solve' the problem of why I didn't feel the richness, you reply with this? There are only two explanations. 1. You are deliberately not addressing my point, even when I repeat it several times using different wordings and put it in bold italics. That is to say: You are not debating in good faith. 2. You have been so utterly hoodwinked by the confidence trick of prophecy you are almost entirely incapable of comprehending the point. In applying the principle of charity, I am forced to conclude it is the latter, in which case I pity you. Maybe you should try arguing with psychics and other woo-meisters for a while, you'll begin to see that they suffer from the same blindess and use the same diversionary tactics. They all seem to incapable of grasping the simple concept that a prediction which can take into account every conceivable eventuality is no prediction at all. On the other hand, if you want to address the actual points I raised, I'll be keen to hear what you have to say about them. Return to the previous posts and try to understand what I am saying and how it might be different from what you currently think I am saying.
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5195 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
jaywill,
Dogma can be right sometimes. Dogma is not untrue, simply because it is dogma.
But you were asked for evidence, gave none, & when this was pointed out you evade by suggesting that your evidentially vacuous dogma might not be false. Evasion. Mark There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
You are the one that brought up extra biblical support for your arguments.
Don't play the game that you can say anything and not back it up just because it is a bible study room. You are the one making the assertions. Either back them up, or admit that all you have are your beliefs. I can respect the fact that you believe it just because you believe, but dont try to spin a conversation. When you make an assertion or a claim you can either back it up or retract it. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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bluescat48 Member (Idle past 4189 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: |
I have also see quite a bit of resistence to extra-biblical testimonial that Jesus was extraordinary and lived. Popular is the excuse that such historical testimonial was forged by Christians. The point is what I am looking for is non-christian evidence ie the decree from Augustus that sent everyone back to the ancestral home to register that is dated and found to be from the actual era ~5 to 8 BCE. There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
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bluescat48 Member (Idle past 4189 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: |
I could be wrong. I think moderation is lenient when it comes to placing postings here which more appropriately seem suited to other rooms. Case in point - you harping of extra biblical evidence on fulfilled prophecy. The Tile of the topic is
Fulfillments of Bible Prophecy So where else would one ask for evidence to such. If you are going to say that the prophesy has been fulfilled, than this is why we ask for substanciating evidence. There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
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Admin Director Posts: 12998 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Hi all!
I'll be moderating this thread. I tried to read back to discover how discussion had gotten to this point, but I didn't find it after a few minutes and I'm not willing to put more time into it right now. So posts after this one should address the topic, the whole topic, and nothing but the topic. Please leave all digressions and complaints about digressions to me, I'm good at it, I know because everyone complains about it. Thanks! Oh, by the way, if you post before seeing this, better change it quick!
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Kapyong Member (Idle past 3442 days) Posts: 344 Joined: |
Gday,
jaywill writes: Pliney, Phlegon, Josephus our extra-biblcal confirmers of the life of Jesus to a degree. PLINY the Younger (c.112CE) About 80 years after the alleged events, (and over 40 years after the war) Pliny referred to Christians who worshipped a "Christ" as a god, but there is no reference to a historical Jesus (or Gospel events.)Pliny the Younger PHLEGON (c.140) Phlegon wrote during the 140s - his works are lost. Later, Origen, Eusebius, and Julianus Africanus (as quoted by George Syncellus) refer to him, but quote differently his reference to an eclipse. There is no evidence Phlegon actually said anything about Jesus or Gospel events, he was merely talking about an eclipse (they DO happen) which LATER Christians argued was the "darkness" in their stories. JOSEPHUS (c.96CE) The famous Testamonium Flavianum (the T.F.) in the Antiquities of the Jews is considered probably the best evidence for Jesus, yet it has some serious problems :* the T.F. as it stands uses clearly Christian phrases and names Christ as Messiah, it could not possibly have been written by the devout Jew Josephus (who remained a Jew and refused to call anyone "messiah" in his book which was partly about how false messiahs kept leading Israel astray.), * The T.F. was not mentioned by any of the early Church fathers who reviewed Josephus. * Origen even says Josephus does NOT call Jesus the Messiah, showing the passage was not present in that earlier era. * The T.F. first showed up in manuscripts of Eusebius, and was still absent from some manuscripts as late as 8th century. An analysis of Josephus can be found here:LIGAUBO - Daftar Situs Judi Slot Online Gacor Deposit Pulsa Jackpot Terbesar In short - this passage is possibly a total forgery (or at best a corrupt form of a lost original.)But, yes, it COULD just be actual evidence for Jesus - late, corrupt, controversial but just POSSIBLY real historical evidence. Kapyong
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
quote: If not then what else are we supposed to accept as evidence of prophecy fulfillment? Your word? Other passages in the bible? Have you not been reading this thread? There needs to be some sort of evidence or support outside of the bible in order for you to realistically claim that there is a fulfillment of a biblical prophecy. No preaching, no lame excuses, no PRATTS, like Josephus, Pliny(I have never seen it written as Pliney) or Phlegon. Give us some sort of evidence. Anything. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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