jw:
But aren't there some things which the scientist presupposes ?
onfire:
No.
What do you think science presupposes...?
Science presupposes mathematics and logic. Science cannot prove them because science presupposes them.
Science presupposes itself - that the scientifc method discovers truth. But this cannot itself be proved by the scientific method.
So one can read books on Science, and books on History of Science, and books on the Philosophy of Science.
Laws of logic are used to help us to know truth. Laws of logic are used in doing science itself. Laws of logic are philosophical laws upon which science is based and cannot themselves be proved by science.
I question that any one can totally remove ideology from science.
Science isn't a "thing" that thinks for itself. You may be right that you can't remove certain ideologies from people working in science, this is precisely the point with IDers, but science as an institution holds to no world view or ideology.
Well, I don't see much difference. You say that I may be right that you cannot remove idealogies from people doing science. So then people doing science have ideologies and they may effect their thinking on scientific matters.
Saying, that only proponents of ID do that and everyone else does not, I think, is wishful thinking. Einstien hated to see the galaxies expanding from each other. He had a belief in an eternal universe. He didn't like to see that it was expanding and seemed to have a start from somewhere.
He said that his "constant" in one of this theories to account for an ever existing universe was the biggest blunder of his career. I think that this self confessed blunder was due to his ideology about an eternally existing universe - a rather philosophical idea.
You may say "But that is not science thinking that, that is the person Einstien." Does it really make that much difference?
So saying "only creationists and ID proponents are influenced by their world view and not the rest of us normal scientists" is mistaking yourselves for the people you'd like to be, I think.
The point was that they WON'T change if the stay closed minded.
- Oni
And being willing to go where ever the evidence points is a sign of a truly opened mind.
Sometimes I do not see that. I see people who would rather die than admit evidence points to intelligence in nature.
You may be about to do it yourself.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.