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Author | Topic: Scientists unveil fossil of 47 million-year-old primate, Darwinius masillae | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taz Member (Idle past 3319 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
I for one think the publicity campaign isn't over the top at all. It's a good thing that people are as excited as they are of new scientific discoveries. I can't believe you guys aren't tired of science always getting a small section of the back page while Briteny Spear's 55 hour just for fun wedding got the front page for a week. If anything, we need more publicity campaigns just like this one for science.
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
Taz writes: I can't believe you guys aren't tired of science always getting a small section of the back page while Briteny Spear's 55 hour just for fun wedding got the front page for a week. I'm very tired of such things.
It's a good thing that people are as excited as they are of new scientific discoveries. I agree. My problem is that I agree with both sides of this issue.I agree scientific findings should get promoted alongside pop-culture issues since the science findings actually are important and interesting rather than just seemingly, short-sightedly so. But I also agree with the other side that "creating hype for the sake of hype" can hurt science's professionalism, and therefore start to eat away at it's credibility. I don't have an answer for this. If science remains professional, it will get lost amongst all the not-really-important-but-people-love-it-any crap that gets tossed out on the news every day. If science starts farting their message into the faces of the world's population, just like all the pop-culture promotions of today, they'll end up losing credibility and have trouble being seen as "equal" to these same pop-culture poop-factories. Where's the middle ground? Perhaps science should take a dramatic dump all over the media for a while... then pull back a bit. Get that shock factor of "see, this is cool and interesting..." in, and then pull back to a more professional level of world-wide, general populace promotion. Perhaps this specific advertising was too much, and even though science definitely should do more than what they're doing now... maybe this is a bit too far. Personally, I'm currently flip-flopping faster than a baseball card hitting a bike's spokes. I'm not sure if I need to digest, or see how things develop, or just need more information before seeing which actions should be taken. Right now, I'm sympathetic to both sides.
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Perdition Member (Idle past 3265 days) Posts: 1593 From: Wisconsin Joined: |
I agree. I think the only way we can make a real determination is to wait and see how it plays out.
Edited by Perdition, : Spelling.
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Taz Member (Idle past 3319 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
Stile writes:
But it really doesn't seem to me like the kind of hype you guys are talking about. But I also agree with the other side that "creating hype for the sake of hype" can hurt science's professionalism, and therefore start to eat away at it's credibility. This fossil really is the find of the century. I remember back in 2000 they came out with a list of the 100 most important people in the last thousand years. Einstein, Patton, Roosevelt, Darnwin, and Lincoln were on there. But so were Arnold Swatzeneger (ok, so I can't spell the guy's name), Micheal Jackson, and Mcdanna... can't spell her name either. They left out Guttenberg, which was probably the most important person in my humble opinion. They left out Yamamoto. Again, this fossil is a really important find. I'd say it's the find of the century. I don't see what's wrong with actually getting people to know it. I don't want it to be viewed as just another fossil. I want people to realize how important a find this is.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2978 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Hi Stile,
As always there's a bigger picture to one specific media hyped story. Why are we beginning to put science in the media? The answer in my opinion can be found in this article:
Real science comes to Washington A few quotes:
quote: In a society that is lead in their opinions by the media, is it any wonder why people care more about Britney than science? Of course not. How do you now shift peoples opinions about science, well, the same as you do with any product, media hype of course. What is being proposed is huge and tax payers must stand behind it. They must stand behind science. Science needs to be in the media now and this particular fossil finding begins to hype up science and perhaps get people interested in it, instead of Britney.
quote: - Oni "I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks "I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
Taz writes: Again, this fossil is a really important find. I'd say it's the find of the century. I don't see what's wrong with actually getting people to know it. I don't want it to be viewed as just another fossil. I want people to realize how important a find this is. I completely, 100% agree.That is, assuming that all the actual, real science behind this is legit (and right now, I don't find that to be a difficult assumption to make). But it really doesn't seem to me like the kind of hype you guys are talking about. This is what I'm talking about:
Percy says the media writes: It's really a kind of Rosetta Stone because it ties together parts that we have been unable to associate before. Is this really required? I mean, c'mon... "unable to associate before"?? That seems to be overstating the case a bit. Perhaps unable to specifically, deterministically give the 'ol "aha!!" But I think the word choice of "associate" isn't quite required.
Percy says the media writes: This fossil is probably the one that will be pictured in all textbooks for the next hundred years. I don't have a problem with this. This is the kind of drama I think should be included. But the previous is over-the-top.
Percy says the media writes: This will be just like an asteroid hitting the Earth. I would say this is over-the-top and not required, because it doesn't really say anything and therefore doesn't really mean anything. But I'm guessing this is the one Percy made up, so my distaste for it may very well be irrelevent.
Percy says the media writes: Ida will supplant Lucy on the world stage. I have no problem with this either. My problem isn't with "any hype at all", my problem is with the little bits that are "over-hype." If we removed the one where I have issue, and the one I think is from Percy... isn't it still hype, and a good amount of it? But, I certainly think science may even deserve a bit of over-hype for a bit just to even things off from it's recent hype-drought anyway.
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
Thanks for the background info. It certainly makes more sense given such a motivation.
onifre writes: How do you now shift peoples opinions about science, well, the same as you do with any product, media hype of course. I agree. I'm just not sold on where exactly the level of "enough drama" to "too much drama" is. But, well, perhaps that's just a nit-picky personally subjective thing that won't ever be comfortable for all people anyway. Perhaps I should just suck-it-up and see where this goes
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Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 8.3 |
But it really doesn't seem to me like the kind of hype you guys are talking about. My problem with it is that it's exactly the kind of early, ill-considered hype I dislike in science reporting. Science reporting tends to consist of two things: false balance and early other-enthusiasm. I'd want to see more science reporting of things that have been properly investigated by multiple parties and on which a decent spread of research has been done. I dislike the selling of this as "like an asteroid", "the rosetta stone", "the missing link" or "changes everything" - this is bollocks, it doesn't.
Again, this fossil is a really important find. I'd say it's the find of the century. I don't see what's wrong with actually getting people to know it. I don't want it to be viewed as just another fossil. I want people to realize how important a find this is. It's an important find, I'll agree. It's a stunningly well preserved fossil but I don't believe it's the most important find of the century; I'd say Tiktaalik roseae and Puijila darwini are both more significant, just off the top of my head. What's more there is already considerable disagreement over whether the fossil shows what the paper's authors claim it does (that the Adapids are basal to the anthropoid primates) not helped by the fact that the paper doesn't include a decent cladistic analysis. Now, the authors may be right, but it seems awfully like they're found a really neat fossil and then jumped straight to claiming it supports their existing view on primate evolution without properly establishing their case. That's disappointing in a paper on an exciting discovery anyway but when they've coupled that with a massive co-ordinated media assault, well, colour me unimpressed.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2978 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
I'm just not sold on where exactly the level of "enough drama" to "too much drama" is. It will be dictated by public reaction, I'm assuming. There is of course the fact that certain media outlets are just prone to hyping up stories more than others. I think it's on us, the viewers, to limit and regulate ourselves as to what we buy into and what hype we get behind. The media is going to do what it's gotta do for those ratings. You can't blame them, it pays the bills. ...But I think it's still a long ways away from science being a desired news story. Here are todays top searches on Yahoo: (1)American Idol(2)Tori Amos (3)Angelina Jolie (4)Dancing With the St (5)Dolla (6)Dane Cook (7)Quit Smoking (8)Palm Pre (9)Fitness Programs (10)Fuel-Efficient Cars Still no ape girl - but people wanna know about Doll(a), though.
Perhaps I should just suck-it-up and see where this goes I think we'll see more hyped up science related stories in the coming years. Blue Planet, Planet Earth (both the series and the new movie), Inconvinient Truth, etc. I think they serve as an example that there is a current media push for these types of shows, movies, news stories, these days for reasons that I suspect have a bigger agenda behind them. - Oni "I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks "I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi Stile
(cognitive dissonance: stile sitting on a fence ...) Here's a video of a computer version\reconstruction BBC NEWS | Science & Environment | Primate fossil in virtual reality Very large forward facing eyes. Enjoy. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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Adminnemooseus Administrator Posts: 3976 Joined: |
I've changed the topic title to include the genus/species name (stole title from article linked to in message 1).
Here is a link to what seems to be the "official" Darwinius masillae website: Revealing the Link - Welcome Adminnemooseus
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Rahvin Member Posts: 4042 Joined: Member Rating: 7.7 |
It's really a kind of Rosetta Stone because it ties together parts that we have been unable to associate before. This one's the fake, because it's the most accurate.
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Blue Jay Member (Idle past 2725 days) Posts: 2843 From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts Joined: |
Hi, Rahvin.
Actually, I saw the commercial on the History Channel last night, and somebody in that commercial actually did say the one about the Rosetta Stone. -Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus) Darwin loves you.
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Blue Jay Member (Idle past 2725 days) Posts: 2843 From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts Joined: |
Hi, Perdition.
Perdition writes: I think the only way we can make a real determination is to wait and see how it plays out. Spoken like a true scientist! I agree too: there's a reason you don't get the Nobel Prize the year your groundbreaking study comes out, after all. The scientific community needs time to look over claims before it makes up its mind, and, if it turns out the Ida is not the incredible find it is being claimed to be, there's going to be more than enough embarrassment to go around, and science won't be helped by this media hype at all. -Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus) Darwin loves you.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2978 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Just thought I should update.
Here's todays top 10 Yahoo searches: (1)Kris Allen(2)Moon Bloodgood (3)Sarah Jessica Parke (4)American Idol (5)Michael Vick (6)Missing Link (7)Sherlock Holmes Tra (8)Guantanamo Bay (9)Airfare Deals (10)Autism There she is, she made the cut. One day publicity does wonders, eh? - Oni "I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks "I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky
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