The Bible's Flat Earth

you know all those ancient tablets that are found and studied?As they learn more about ancient languages, their understanding of ancient hebrew improves and they adjust the bible translations accordinglyAlso, as our own language changes and words become obsolete, or new words come into effect, or old words change in meaning, bible translators revise their bibles to reflect such changes.For example, old english word 'Shambles' used to mean 'Meat Market/Slaughter House' but in todays english its mostly known as a 'mess'

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shambles (shmblz)
pl.n. (used with a sing. verb)
1.
a. A scene or condition of complete disorder or ruin: "The economy was in a shambles" W. Bruce Lincoln.
b. Great clutter or jumble; a total mess: made dinner and left the kitchen a shambles.
2.
a. A place or scene of bloodshed or carnage.
b. A scene or condition of great devastation.
3. A slaughterhouse.
4. Archaic A meat market or butcher shop. 'shambles' referes to

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the KJV used the old english word 'shambles' in a verse in the greek scriptures that was in reference to a local 'meat market' visited by the apostle Paul. But in modern bibles it made no sense to continue to use the word 'shambles' because people did not think of it to mean a meat market but rather a mess. So they adjusted the translation to read 'meat market' which is more understood in modern english.This is how bibles are updated. The doctrine is not changed.

You know that is untrue, Peg. 200 years ago the "doctrine" was that you should treat your slaves kindly, and not beat them to death, as that got expensive. Now the same churches say that slavery is Very Wrong and forbidden by the Bible - and those Bible verses haven't changed much at all.The same goes for killing "witches." The same goes for women having to wear hats to church when I was a child, but no longer by the time I got out of college. Heck, for the Sun going around the Earth until 1620 or so. Doctrine evolves continuously to catch up with the progress of society, Peg. Not so much the other way around....

yes you're right, 'doctrine' was a poor choice of wordI should have said the 'written word' has not changed.

But your last post was showing where the "written word" has changed.....
And in any case, the near-universal interpretation of what God's Unchanging and Immutable Word is changes continuously - even the Southern Baptists over here no longer advocate slavery. I doubt that you can find one in a hundred of them that even know that their denomination exists because it split from the Baptists that weren't slave owners.

Hi Coragyps.Just wondering why it is you cite the year 1620 as an end to people believing that the sun orbits earth.Is there some sort of documentation to indicate that churchmen were by then officially embracing Copernicus?I have been attempting to track the development of the changeover in that belief/doctrine and have a good deal of evidence to suggest that, for many Christians, it came much later. I would be pleased to learn the particular of any earlier, official, conversions to the new (Copernnican) doctrine.Thank you.

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Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -

this world is full of sin... how each and everyone going to survive with holy?
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Welcome to EvC Arabela.You will have lots of opportunities to make your points here but you are expected to stick to the topic of the threads you post to.If you keep posting like this you will loose your privilege to post.

no, what has changed is our understanding of ancient languages hence why some words have been updated to more correctly fit with the original meaningif anything, the bible is becoming more and more clear.

This topic seems a bit off-topicI'll just say something about the ''immovable'' part in the psalmsIt should be noted the same expression is used in psalms 16 if I'm not mistaken, but the author applies it to himself (I shall not be moved ... or something like that)I doubt anyone would think that the author meant that he was litteraly rooted to one spot.

Hi slevesque,I presume you mean Psalms 16:8.I agree that mowt is used in a clearly metaphorical sense in Psalms 16, however this does not mean that it is not literal when used in Psalms 93.Psalm 93 might not seem like mere metaphor when viewed in isolation but the truth is that it is just one of many biblical passages that speak in terms of an archaic concept of the world/universe. The simplest explanation for this is that the ancient Hebrew people who wrote the various books of the Bible (particularly the Old Testament) had a view of the world similar to that of the people around them, ie. flat, geocentric, immobile and topped off by a great dome.If the Bible authors actually had a reasonably accurate heliocentric view of their cosmos, they were way ahead of their time, yet strangely, they did not see fit to mention this anywhere.Mutate and Survive

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"The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade

Oddly enough, what has actually changed is our understanding of the world around us. This improved understanding forces apologists such as you to torture ancient texts even more with each passing century to get them to "agree" with observed, accepted reality. The original meanings were "flat and circular' and "immovable." Only folks such as yourself and the Baptist preacher down the street from me will claim that "immovable" equates to "travelling 66,000 miles per hour while rotating at 1000 miles per hour."

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Psalm 93 might not seem like mere metaphor when viewed in isolation but the truth is that it is just one of many biblical passages that speak in terms of an archaic concept of the world/universe. The simplest explanation for this is that the ancient Hebrew people who wrote the various books of the Bible (particularly the Old Testament) had a view of the world similar to that of the people around them, ie. flat, geocentric, immobile and topped off by a great dome.

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I don't think Psalms 93:1 is speaking of the planet or the ground as immovable. The writer seems to be talking about their civilization. The Jews knew other cultures had gods. I don't know what timeframe this Psalms was written, but it may have been a time when Israel and Judah were kingdoms and the people felt secure. It's hard to say what prompted the song.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

Hi PD, I had a feeling you might chime in on this one.

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I don't think Psalms 93:1 is speaking of the planet or the ground as immovable. The writer seems to be talking about their civilization.

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And you may well be right. The metaphorical potential of the psalm is pretty obvious, but neither of us can say for sure which interpretation is correct.The problem for literalists is that the statement "the earth shall not be moved/shaken/brought low" is just as factually wrong as the idea that it doesn't move. It also seems a very odd choice of metaphor for someone who was aware that the Earth was indeed moving. Even if the passage is purely metaphorical it is still a metaphor couched in the world view of a people who saw the earth as being at the centre of things, unchanging and unmoving.Mutate and Survive

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"The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade

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It also seems a very odd choice of metaphor for someone who was aware that the Earth was indeed moving. Even if the passage is purely metaphorical it is still a metaphor couched in the world view of a people who saw the earth as being at the centre of things, unchanging and unmoving.

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I agree the people of the time probably weren't aware that the planet was moving, as opposed to the sun moving around our planet.I don't know how many earthquakes took place in that timeframe, but there is always the possibility that the word translated as immovable was talking about the cessation of earthquakes in that time. The Psalm is classified as a song of praise and thanks.Since we aren't the target audience, I agree that it is hard to say for sure.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

Palestine isn't exactly a hotspot for earthquakes, anyway. There are plenty within a few hundred kilometers of there, I guess - Turkey, Iran, and Greece - but I don't know that they feel them too often in Israel. Though people I know who've been through a good 'quake do tell me it sticks tight in your memory.....