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Author | Topic: Is belief in God or the Bible necessary to believe in a massive flood. | |||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17826 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Maybe it IS a confused memory of the supposed lawsuit. There was no book, and I don't remember the name - but it does match in other areas (perhaps "Ahmed Behgat" was one of the unnamed backers of the proposed lawsuit). In the discussion here there were even claims about "new evidence" - but there was never anything to substantiate it.
See the discussions starting here:http://EvC Forum: Endogenous Retroviral Insertions Demonstrate Evolution Beyond a Reasonable Doubt -->EvC Forum: Endogenous Retroviral Insertions Demonstrate Evolution Beyond a Reasonable Doubt and here:http://EvC Forum: The Exodus: 'A Dead Issue.' -->EvC Forum: The Exodus: 'A Dead Issue.' (The latter thread has more relevant material to current discussion). (Note that much of what Jester461 said was untrue - and in fact I can find no sign that the lawsuit was ever filed anywhere, or that the "evidence" other than the Torah account was ever anything more than a figment of jester461's imagination.)
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PaulK Member Posts: 17826 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: I would class that as historical rather than archaeological evidence. I was thinking more of evidence of the massive depopulation of Egypt when a large proportion of the (pre-plague) population walked out. Or the Hebrew camp at Kadesh-Barnea. And of course of a large influx of people conquering and destroying in Canaan in conjunction with the above two events.
quote: Josephus, writing as a Jew, identified the Hyksos with the Israelites (it is his idea, not Manetho's). All that can be said for this is that the Hyksos were apparently Semitic (but Egyptianised) people who lived in the delta region and left Egypt in the direction of Canaan. None of the rest fits. Even at the basic level, the Hyksos ruled the delta area as a separate kingdom and were driven out by military force. A simple identification of the Hyksos with the Israelites accepts that Exodus is wrong in many ways (and therefore proves my point).
quote:No seals belonging to them. No letters corresponding with neighbouring kingdoms. No inscriptions attributed to their reigns, little evidence that Jerusalem was especially important at the time David supposedly reigned over all Israel... quote: I never said that you couldn't use "dating as a bases [sic] for evidence for the age of manuscripts". It would be nonsense to say such a thing.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17826 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: In other words you want to assume that Manetho's account (as relayed by Josephus) is distorted in just the ways you find convenient. There's one big, big problem with that. Your assumptions aren't evidence. If you want to use Manetho as evidence then you are stuck with what Manetho actually says. Not what you assume he was talking about. Manetho's story is very different from the Exodus as I have already pointed out. If you want to show that it is wrong then you need evidence.
quote: Except that there is no mention of Solomon at all. There could be a temple in Jerusalem without Solomon.
quote: The existence of cedar forests in Lebanon does nothing to show that Solomon existed. Unless you are suggesting that Solomon somehow magically created those forests.
quote: The association with Solomon is disputed (and is based solely on the dating), with other archaeologists attributing these structures to the Omride dynasty of Israel.
quote: The interpretation of the Tel Dan stele is disputed. (It hasbeen discussed here - Brian had a lot to say about it). So thanks for once again showing that I am correct. And for giving me a laugh by suggesting that cedar forests in Lebanon are evidence of Solomon.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17826 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: No, it is not a fact. It's an interpretation that may not be correct. (It may well be, but it's uncertain).
quote: No, there was no such assertion. Please remember that the rules of the site tell you to avoid misrepresentation.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17826 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: Even if it did (and it only "proves" it in this instance) that isn't relevant to showing that Solomon existed.
quote: YOU can't change the fact that the evidence is very weak - fully justifying my statement that their existence is uncertain.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17826 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: I guess that you're too lazy to read the posts or you wouldn't have to ask. I'm saying that Solomon's existence is uncertain. Peg is doing a nice job of demonstrating that by failing to come up with any significant evidence of Solomon's existence outside the Bible.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17826 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: To be more accurate, I said that there was a lack of GOOD evidence.
quote: Since I didn't claim that there was absolutely no evidence whatsoever you are simply engaging in more misrepresentation.
quote: Yes. All your examples dealing with events prior to those described in 1 Samuel (to use an semi-arbitrary cut-off point) had little bearing on the accuracy of the Bible. For instance the existence of Ur - a major city that lasted a long time - has little bearing on the truthfulness of the Bible stories about Abraham.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17826 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: The question people have to ask themselves is why you insist on engaging in misepresentation, despite all the warnings I've given. As I stated in this thread the Bible is a collection of works which have to be judged individually. The only book that I described as myth and legend was Genesis. Unsurprisingly very few of your examples have anything to do with Genesis, and those that do contain few people that can be confirmed to be real. And of course, place names tend to persist. Are we to believe that the Egyptian story of Osiris is not myth because the river Nile really exists ?
quote: Do so with an honest and fair eye - and without misrepresenting my position - and you will see that I am right.
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