coded information in DNA

Hi guys, I couldn't find a thread on this specific question which I'm sure has been mentioned somewhere, please forgive me. But how do we account for the coded symbolic information in DNA through the laws of physics and chemistry?

This is an interesting topic to discuss.However, before it can be promoted we'd need to see a lot more detail.Please define "coded symbolic information" so we know what is being discussed. That would be a good start.Then you should offer your own views on the subject. That is, to you think there is or is not a problem for DNA to have this stuff and why do you think that.

Hello AdminNosy,Coded information = a system of symbols used by an encoding / decoding mechanism that transmits a message which is seperate from the communication medium itself.Examples would be english, computer languages, radio signal and music and yes, DNA. All known codes always involve a system of symbols which represent a idea, concept or plans etc.As far as my view on this, I don't see how the laws of physics and chemistry alone can account for the coded information contained in DNA. All known codes that we know the origin of always come from intelligent activity.The next question I suppose is will we all agree DNA contains coded information or not. I say it most surely does based on information theory itself. We can start here I guess, thx.

I guess the topic is done with then.Since DNA's "message" is not separate from the medium at all it doesn't meet the definition of you Coded Information.DNA is just chemistry. Can you explain why you think it is anything more?

Seperate in the sense that paper and ink does not account for the information in a book. Books cannot be reduced to paper and ink and DNA is not reducible to chemicals.A book containing random letters contains no message. A hypothetical DNA molecule with random bases contains no plan / instructions for an organism. But a real book and a real DNA molecule both contain real codes represented by symbols composed of real matter that represent real useful information and uniquely specify external objects, processes and ideas. The code itself is an immaterial entity.Naturalistic explanations may provide the materials, but still fail to explain the origin of the code. Why? Because coded information is an immaterial entity and based on all known observation, is only created by mental processes.

Since DNA is very much reducible to chemicals you might want to do more research before you try to discuss this.But I'll let this go for now.You will have to support your arguments with evidence or this thread will be closed.All you have done so far is make unsupported assertions. That will not be allowed to continue.You have a few days to get it sorted out.

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

AdminNosy,1- DNA is not merely a molecule with a pattern, it is a code, a language, and an information storage mechanism.
2- All codes are created by a conscious mind, there is no natural process known to science that creates coded information.
3- Therefore DNA was designed by intelligence.If you can provide an example of a code or language that occurs naturally you can prove this false. All you need is one.

Petitio principii. The genetic code.Are we done here?Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

Hi Dr,The genetic code is the very thing in question.

Who created English?

Quite so. And yet you take it as a premise that "all codes [in which you include the genetic code] are created by a conscious mind".In the same way, you can prove that President Obama is white --- if I will only grant you the premise that all American Presidents (in which we include President Obama) are white.It's very easy to prove anything if you are allowed to postulate, without proof, a premise that includes your conclusion.This method has, as someone remarked, many advantages: they are the advantages of theft over honest toil.Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

WordBeLogos, Let's be more specific, all codes are made by man.3- Therefore DNA was designed by man.This is as correct as your logic, yet I suspect you wouldn't accept the resulting conclusion. Why? Because assumption 2 is untenable, you simply don't know that codes are made exclusively by intelligence.Mark

---

There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

Gravity.Gravity is the natural code or language that describes the forces on objects due to other objects.The equations describing gravity represents the code. Objects themselves are information storage mechanisms about the amount of gravitational force they naturally possess. The code is transmitted from one object to another via space-time itself at the speed of light.Gravity was not created by a conscious mind, it is a simple, naturally occuring process of the universe known to science that creates coded information.Therefore gravity was not designed by intelligence.

This topic requires some precise definitions, most importantly for information. Science already has a formal definition for information, but I have a feeling that isn't the definition you're using. So how are you defining information?A definition of code would also be helpful.Agreement on definition of terms is a prerequisite for this discussion.--PercyEdited by Percy, : Grammar.