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Author Topic:   Why is the Intelligent Designer so inept?
lyx2no
Member (Idle past 4716 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 56 of 352 (478295)
08-13-2008 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Rahvin
08-13-2008 4:42 PM


Re: Unappreciative Blasphemy Thread
This bugs me.
I look at it in a different light myself. We whip the cdesign proponetists at our game (science) time after time. Here we get to beat them at their game (apologetics). On-lookers get to see the cdesign proponetists whooped eight-ways-to-Sunday, and the cdesign proponetists can make no claim to our having home field advantage.
You write some damn fine posts.

Kindly
When I was young I loved everything about cigarettes: the smell, the taste, the feel . everything. Now that I’m older I’ve had a change of heart. Want to see the scar?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Rahvin, posted 08-13-2008 4:42 PM Rahvin has not replied

lyx2no
Member (Idle past 4716 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 74 of 352 (478337)
08-14-2008 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by Buzsaw
08-14-2008 11:40 AM


Re: Unappreciative Blasphemy Thread
Why does it not amaze me that your god is no brighter than you are. Not one of the things you mentioned would be a limitation of a being without limitations. It sort of goes with the territory of not being limited.
My God would have made us out of the dust of the earth and we'd have no innards at all. We live the lives of the bad guys on the A-team. Our small-arms fire disabled helicopter would slam into a cliff 300 feet above the beach, explode and tumble down into a burning heap. Then all the occupants stumble out holding their arms out to balance their dizzy selves. Except we'd offer it up as a carnival ride. (Whee!)
Edited by lyx2no, : Typo.

Kindly
When I was young I loved everything about cigarettes: the smell, the taste, the feel . everything. Now that I’m older I’ve had a change of heart. Want to see the scar?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Buzsaw, posted 08-14-2008 11:40 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by cavediver, posted 08-14-2008 12:19 PM lyx2no has not replied
 Message 92 by Coyote, posted 08-14-2008 9:58 PM lyx2no has not replied

lyx2no
Member (Idle past 4716 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 98 of 352 (478402)
08-14-2008 11:18 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Buzsaw
08-14-2008 10:36 PM


Sans Axe
The work is clearly not shoddy to rational observers who have no axe to grind.
I am a rational observer and have no axe to grind and the work is clearly shoddy. If, with this statement, you were attempting to top the "No one can deny . " statement, you failed. Your tendency to speak in universals doesn't do much to establish you as a rational observer.
You also seem to be missing an important point. If God made us exactly as He wanted us then He is a Dickhead. If God only made us as best He could He's not all powerful. If you are . and you are, going to claim omnicompetence and omniniceness for Him you're going to have to explain, as opposed to merely asserting, that it is possible. But really, this isn't a new problem ” Why do bad things happen to nice people? ” and we shouldn't have to ask or be waiting for you to tell us how.
The creator of an army designs the army to the needs and purposes of the government, not according to the whims and desires of the individuals which make it up.
Are you making some type of claim that creators of armies only make their armies as tough as the war calls for them to be? Wouldn't a government make their army omnistudly if they could? Governments take the "best they can" option. Not that they don't also take the "dickhead" option.
Why, Buzsaw, do bad things happen to good people if the Intelligent designer isn't an idiot (or in the alternative, a dickhead)?

Kindly
When I was young I loved everything about cigarettes: the smell, the taste, the feel . everything. Now that I’m older I’ve had a change of heart. Want to see the scar?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Buzsaw, posted 08-14-2008 10:36 PM Buzsaw has not replied

lyx2no
Member (Idle past 4716 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 112 of 352 (478437)
08-15-2008 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by Buzsaw
08-15-2008 9:03 AM


Re: Unappreciative Blasphemy Thread
The creator, for whatever reason .
You're still arguing one side of the dilemma at a time. Those reasons, whatever they were, weren't too nice. You've got to make Him nice at the same time you make Him competent. Capisci?
Edited by lyx2no, : No reason given.

Kindly
When I was young I loved everything about cigarettes: the smell, the taste, the feel . everything. Now that I’m older I’ve had a change of heart. Want to see the scar?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Buzsaw, posted 08-15-2008 9:03 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by Buzsaw, posted 08-15-2008 10:41 PM lyx2no has replied

lyx2no
Member (Idle past 4716 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 117 of 352 (478452)
08-15-2008 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by Rahvin
08-15-2008 1:52 PM


More Incompetent by the Minute
Your "designer" still seems to be an incompetent one, or is attempting to hide his existence.
And yet johnfolton and Buzsaw both found Him. How incompetent is that?

Kindly
When I was young I loved everything about cigarettes: the smell, the taste, the feel . everything. Now that I’m older I’ve had a change of heart. Want to see the scar?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Rahvin, posted 08-15-2008 1:52 PM Rahvin has not replied

lyx2no
Member (Idle past 4716 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 125 of 352 (478486)
08-15-2008 11:42 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by Buzsaw
08-15-2008 10:41 PM


Explain ” Not Assert
Nice and competent; extraordinarily so, to his own beloved who conform; incompetent and oppressive to the antagonist rebels.
Does it not bother you to say such stupid things in a world where your God denied his kindness to so many Jewish children not so long ago. AbE: Not to diminish the 30,000 children who die miserably everyday.
Even the Devil is kind to his friends.
Did you missed the bit about explaining instead of merely asserting back in message 98, or are you unable to say anything but "Is too"?
Edited by lyx2no, : No reason given.
Edited by lyx2no, : Better choice of words.

Kindly
When I was young I loved everything about cigarettes: the smell, the taste, the feel . everything. Now that I’m older I’ve had a change of heart. Want to see the scar?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Buzsaw, posted 08-15-2008 10:41 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by Buzsaw, posted 08-16-2008 9:01 AM lyx2no has replied

lyx2no
Member (Idle past 4716 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 140 of 352 (478540)
08-16-2008 11:37 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by Buzsaw
08-16-2008 9:01 AM


Re: Explain ” Not Assert
Sorry it took me so long to get back to you. I was, um, busy.
The Devil? The heavenly rebel who, with his rebel angels have effected the diminishment of the Edenic humans designed to live forever; who corrupted most of the humans on earth so as to effect the necessity of the global flood; who have demonized and deterioriated divinely designed humans to what we are today and who have instigated warfare, corruption and apostacy from truth globally?
Yes.

Kindly
When I was young I loved everything about cigarettes: the smell, the taste, the feel . everything. Now that I’m older I’ve had a change of heart. Want to see the scar?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Buzsaw, posted 08-16-2008 9:01 AM Buzsaw has not replied

lyx2no
Member (Idle past 4716 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 186 of 352 (506567)
04-27-2009 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by traderdrew
04-27-2009 2:06 PM


Trade Off
It was a trade off in order for our eyes to receive more nutrients such as oxygen.
What are the restrictions place upon God that He has to make trade offs? Who placed these restrictions upon Him?

Genesis 2
17 But of the ponderosa pine, thou shalt not eat of it; for in the day that thou shinniest thereof thou shalt sorely learn of thy nakedness.
18 And we all live happily ever after.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by traderdrew, posted 04-27-2009 2:06 PM traderdrew has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by traderdrew, posted 04-27-2009 4:32 PM lyx2no has replied

lyx2no
Member (Idle past 4716 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 189 of 352 (506573)
04-27-2009 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by traderdrew
04-27-2009 4:32 PM


Re: Trade Off
Actually, you're the one arguing from a unfounded perspective; that it is the way it is because someone wanted it that way. I'm arguing from the persective of why do it the dumb way when the smart way won't cost a penny more. Don't have a trade off with stupid.

Genesis 2
17 But of the ponderosa pine, thou shalt not eat of it; for in the day that thou shinniest thereof thou shalt sorely learn of thy nakedness.
18 And we all live happily ever after.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by traderdrew, posted 04-27-2009 4:32 PM traderdrew has not replied

lyx2no
Member (Idle past 4716 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 194 of 352 (506581)
04-27-2009 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by traderdrew
04-27-2009 4:48 PM


Re: Trade Off
I am here to sharpen my skills as a proponent of I.D.
Ah! The perfect anti-science truth. Have a position, then an argument.

Genesis 2
17 But of the ponderosa pine, thou shalt not eat of it; for in the day that thou shinniest thereof thou shalt sorely learn of thy nakedness.
18 And we all live happily ever after.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by traderdrew, posted 04-27-2009 4:48 PM traderdrew has not replied

lyx2no
Member (Idle past 4716 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 283 of 352 (508321)
05-12-2009 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 279 by traderdrew
05-11-2009 8:26 PM


An Inept God
Inept is a point of view.
And you seem to understand God has achieved it.
Why would a creator place more complex organisms in an ecosystem if environmental factors didn't allow them to flourish?
Because the Creator is inept or nonexistent could both serve to answer that question. Extinctions show one or the other to be the case. Yet you choose neither and go for some wheels within wheels rational.
So who are we to say that the creator is inept if we don't understand certain things?
"We" are not. A fair number go for the "nonexistent" option.
Edited by lyx2no, : No reason given.

Genesis 2
17 But of the ponderosa pine, thou shalt not eat of it; for in the day that thou shinniest thereof thou shalt sorely learn of thy nakedness.
18 And we all live happily ever after.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by traderdrew, posted 05-11-2009 8:26 PM traderdrew has not replied

lyx2no
Member (Idle past 4716 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 314 of 352 (509123)
05-18-2009 8:58 PM
Reply to: Message 313 by traderdrew
05-18-2009 7:46 PM


Look Who's Grasping at Straws
Why does the creator have to design perfect systems?
Who is asking for perfect? We're asking for competent. If someone invents a typewriter and doesn't bother to include vowels or punctuation marks would you be questioning his greater purpose or his competence? Or are vowels and punctuation marks overdoing it?
The idea that the creator should’ve or would’ve created perfect systems overlooks the possibility of multiple motives and the possibility that perfection wouldn’t serve at least one of those motives.
So, your God is limited in His abilities. He's a tiny god who has to work with what he's given. Inept, as it were. Given your inside scoop with god it's not surprising you make the argument for ineptitude better then an atheist ever could.
Perhaps the creator hid the fingerprints of design because our creator wasn’t interested in our intellectual abilities.
But he couldn't hide them from you, could he, you clever, little minx?
Perhaps the best way to learn wisdom is to live through an experience where it is learned and I would argue that this would arise out of an imperfect world.
What are all those wise African babies learning before they starve to death that's so valuable?
Edited by lyx2no, : Imperfect punctuation.

It is far easier for you, as civilized men, to behave like barbarians than it was for them, as barbarians, to behave like civilized men.
Spock: Mirror Mirror

This message is a reply to:
 Message 313 by traderdrew, posted 05-18-2009 7:46 PM traderdrew has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 317 by traderdrew, posted 05-19-2009 11:36 AM lyx2no has replied

lyx2no
Member (Idle past 4716 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 327 of 352 (509253)
05-19-2009 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 317 by traderdrew
05-19-2009 11:36 AM


"This is going to hurt." Sayest the Lord
Like perfection, competence is a subjective term.
Neither perfection nor competence are subjective terms. Now, where the standard for perfection is an absolute and the standard for competence is arbitrary, both are demonstrable. That’s no small difference. Do I have a perfect grasp of the english language? It appears not: I failed to capitalize the e in English. Am I competent in the English language? In presenting these sentences I demonstrate that I am .
Going back to the vertebrate eye, a trade off was necessary.
This would be an argument for the standard of competence being arbitrary. Or were you demonstrating to me with your trade off of exactitude in meaning for economy with words that the standard of competence is arbitrary. After all, I should have been, and was, able to grasp your good enough response. I’ll agree that that is fine for you and me, but if either of us were a philosopher the lack of such pedantry would be incompetent.
So the question is Is the intelligent designer of our Universe perfect in his own right but a Sunday hobbyist when it comes poofing up universes? Nevertheless, you might well have a point there. There is no way to tell if god said That’s good enough for the bony boys. I’ve got to get to work on the cephalopods: cephalopods won’t cut ya’ the slack you’ll get from traderdrew et al.
Why would god the intelligent designer have to make a trade off? Is it not the arbiter of all rules? To what rules is he it subject?
I think it is ironic that you refer to the creator as tiny.
Ironic would imply an unexpected result. If your god is subject to compromise and the God my mum and the real Christians tell me about isn’t, why would you not expect me to think your god tiny? I think the truth of the matter is that you don’t believe your god to be subject to any rules but fail to recognize the necessary consequences of your own arguments. A god subject to compromise is a tiny, inept god in comparison to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Mum. Or so I’ve been lead to believe.
However, we’re not talking about a god, only an intelligent designer.
Perhaps you will tell the creator that when you meet him one day.
I’m sure He already recognizes the necessary consequences of your arguments.
Perhaps God doesn't mind having some of his design appearing as inept in the eyes of some people.
With eyes as flawed as ours I’m surprised we saw it. You’d thing it would have been the cephalopods who would have brought it up.
Some parts of my posts are based on speculation.
I noticed a slight typo so I took the liberty of correcting it for you. I hope you don’t mind.
quote:
Some parts of my posts are based on wild, baseless speculation that in no way, shape or form comport with a demonsterable reality and often contradicts know facts.
There is a lot of confusion out there and it is hard to be discerning enough to be able to weed through it. I think it confounds some of the best out there.
Some of the best what? Surely you don’t mean thinkers. I know it confuses the apologists. They have to confabulate a wheels within wheels makeshift that will pass the smell test for lacksidasical skeptics and won’t make god look the complete fool to the faithful. The apologists can’t get a mote of it past a half alert skeptic so don’t have to contend with that lot.
If you want to read Hosea 4:6 and the rest of Hosea 4, it may give you some insights into why [African babies gain wisdom by strarving to death] is the case but then again...
I expected to read something along the lines of Repeat after me. Sayest the Lord. ’The square of the hypotenuse of a right triangle is equal to the sum of the squares on the other two sides.’ or I’ll starve you to death., But I was disapointed. All it says is This is going to suck, but I’ll catch you up later. It doesn’t explain the value of it sucking now.
Live long and prosper lyx2no. May your science serve you well.
Thank you, I’m sure it will because the ignorance is bliss thing wasn’t working for me.

It is far easier for you, as civilized men, to behave like barbarians than it was for them, as barbarians, to behave like civilized men.
Spock: Mirror Mirror

This message is a reply to:
 Message 317 by traderdrew, posted 05-19-2009 11:36 AM traderdrew has not replied

lyx2no
Member (Idle past 4716 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 333 of 352 (509348)
05-20-2009 5:12 PM
Reply to: Message 332 by Taq
05-20-2009 11:17 AM


Re: On whatever is left of the Topic
They are trying to pound a square peg through a round hole. I agree.
They are trying to pound a square peg through a round peg.

It is far easier for you, as civilized men, to behave like barbarians than it was for them, as barbarians, to behave like civilized men.
Spock: Mirror Mirror

This message is a reply to:
 Message 332 by Taq, posted 05-20-2009 11:17 AM Taq has not replied

lyx2no
Member (Idle past 4716 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 350 of 352 (510124)
05-27-2009 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 349 by IchiBan
05-27-2009 10:03 PM


Psychic Post Reader
Hi Ichybum
His cause? Unless you are a mind reader, it sounds like more projection.
Sounds more like he's a post reader to me. Have you been paying any attention at all, or are you just fixen' your jones for coyote?
Hi drew
What do you mean you're lame ass ideas are up-settin' folks? Dude, you're funny; you haven't even killed Kenny yet. If you leave I'm gonna' take credit for it. Science Squirrel cases off another nut-job.
Welcome to South Park.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.
Thomas Jefferson

This message is a reply to:
 Message 349 by IchiBan, posted 05-27-2009 10:03 PM IchiBan has not replied

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