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Author
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Topic: Mythology with real places & people
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Peg
Member (Idle past 4951 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: 11-22-2008
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Message 46 of 289 (511293)
06-09-2009 12:06 AM
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Reply to: Message 42 by Rrhain
06-08-2009 5:18 AM
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Rrhain writes: Jesus claimed the power for himself. That was the blasphemy and for that, he proved that he could not possibly be the Messiah for the Messiah is a human being, born of humans, completely human, no divinity whatsoever. hang on a tick, i have to intercept this lol If i told you that I am Mrs Smiths daughter... would you assume that I am Mrs Smith? I just want to know how if one calls himself a 'son' it can be interpreted to mean that he is the 'father' ??? If Jesus was God, then he would not rely on anyone for life and yet Jesus said that his life was from God at John 52:57Just as the living Father sent me forth and I live because of the Father..." Edited by Peg, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 42 by Rrhain, posted 06-08-2009 5:18 AM | | Rrhain has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 66 by Rrhain, posted 06-09-2009 11:58 PM | | Peg has not replied |
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Peg
Member (Idle past 4951 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: 11-22-2008
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Message 47 of 289 (511295)
06-09-2009 12:11 AM
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Reply to: Message 43 by Huntard
06-08-2009 7:02 AM
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Re: The key point needs addressing
Huntard writes: You said "bible characters" not "old testament characters". But fine. That still leaves Samson, as Bluescat has noted. in the case of Samson, his powers were given to him by God...he wasnt born from God and he never claimed to be a god. in fact, when his appointment was broken, he lost all his powers which shows that his powers were from God and not from himself. Same for Moses. He was a regular guy who was given an assignment and powers to assist him.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 43 by Huntard, posted 06-08-2009 7:02 AM | | Huntard has not replied |
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Peg
Member (Idle past 4951 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: 11-22-2008
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Message 48 of 289 (511296)
06-09-2009 12:19 AM
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Reply to: Message 37 by Modulous
06-06-2009 8:22 AM
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Re: Achilles Heel
Modulous writes: all of the historical claims that occur in all of the books of the Bible were shown to have been true, that does not mean the attributed causes behind those events (Yahweh) is in fact the cause behind those events. You surely agree that this is true, yes? a lot of miraculous events occurred though, and miracles dont just happen and no man can perform the miracles mentioned without some supernatural intervention so if the events happened as they are recorded, then the only conclusion i can draw is that the God who acted in the Isrealites behalf must have been a real God and therefore worthy of my attention.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 37 by Modulous, posted 06-06-2009 8:22 AM | | Modulous has replied |
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4211 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: 10-06-2007
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Message 49 of 289 (511297)
06-09-2009 12:32 AM
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Reply to: Message 48 by Peg
06-09-2009 12:19 AM
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Re: Achilles Heel
Peg writes: a lot of miraculous events occurred though, and miracles dont just happen and no man can perform the miracles mentioned without some supernatural intervention Except there is no evidence that any of these miracles occurred.
There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 48 by Peg, posted 06-09-2009 12:19 AM | | Peg has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 51 by Peg, posted 06-09-2009 2:55 AM | | bluescat48 has replied |
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PaulK
Member Posts: 17825 Joined: 01-10-2003 Member Rating: 2.2
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Message 50 of 289 (511298)
06-09-2009 1:14 AM
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Reply to: Message 48 by Peg
06-09-2009 12:19 AM
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Re: Achilles Heel
I think then that we've established that the reason you believe that Genesis is true and the Iliad isn't is not based on anything objective. Both mention real places. Both mention the failures of great leaders. Both include overt supernatural elements (including heroes born of supernatural beings and humans). Both have a degree of archaeological evidence (for the Iliad there is more than there is for some books of the Bible - including Genesis and Exodus).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 48 by Peg, posted 06-09-2009 12:19 AM | | Peg has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 52 by Peg, posted 06-09-2009 2:57 AM | | PaulK has replied |
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Peg
Member (Idle past 4951 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: 11-22-2008
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Re: Achilles Heel
bluescat48 writes: Except there is no evidence that any of these miracles occurred. I disagree. The bible account of the city of Jericho and its miraculous destruction by the Isrealites is one such example of where evidence has been found by archeology. The city was excavated in the 1930's and they found that the double walls surrounding the city had fallen down the slope as if toppled by an earthquake or some other unseen force. As the bible said, houses were built on rafters that bridged the tops of the two walls. they found evidence of intense fire that they said was out of the ordinary because the layer of ashes was unusually thick. The city had not been looted, and just as the bible says, it wasnt rebuilt until hundreds of years later.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 49 by bluescat48, posted 06-09-2009 12:32 AM | | bluescat48 has replied |
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Peg
Member (Idle past 4951 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: 11-22-2008
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Message 52 of 289 (511301)
06-09-2009 2:57 AM
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Reply to: Message 50 by PaulK
06-09-2009 1:14 AM
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Re: Achilles Heel
PaulK writes: Both have a degree of archaeological evidence (for the Iliad there is more than there is for some books of the Bible - including Genesis and Exodus). what archeological evidence is there for the Iliad and its characters?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 50 by PaulK, posted 06-09-2009 1:14 AM | | PaulK has replied |
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2316 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: 09-02-2008
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Message 53 of 289 (511302)
06-09-2009 3:15 AM
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Reply to: Message 52 by Peg
06-09-2009 2:57 AM
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Re: Achilles Heel
Peg writes: what archeological evidence is there for the Iliad and its characters?
One thing I know is that we have the actual city of Troy.
I hunt for the truth
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 52 by Peg, posted 06-09-2009 2:57 AM | | Peg has not replied |
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PaulK
Member Posts: 17825 Joined: 01-10-2003 Member Rating: 2.2
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Message 54 of 289 (511303)
06-09-2009 3:36 AM
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Reply to: Message 52 by Peg
06-09-2009 2:57 AM
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Re: Achilles Heel
quote:
what archeological evidence is there for the Iliad and its characters?
To add to what has been said by Huntard, Schliemann identified the site of Troy from the description in the Illiad. Also, at least one item mentioned in the Iliad (boar's tusk helmets) have been confirmed to be real and in use at the time that the Iliad was set.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 52 by Peg, posted 06-09-2009 2:57 AM | | Peg has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 57 by Peg, posted 06-09-2009 6:45 AM | | PaulK has replied |
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Shield
Member (Idle past 2883 days) Posts: 482 Joined: 01-29-2008
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Message 55 of 289 (511304)
06-09-2009 5:05 AM
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Reply to: Message 52 by Peg
06-09-2009 2:57 AM
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Re: Achilles Heel
Peg writes: what archeological evidence is there for the Iliad and its characters? I would recommend you to read this: Historicity of the Homeric epics - Wikipedia
From the Wiki writes:
In November 2001, geologists John C. Kraft from the University of Delaware and John V. Luce from Trinity College, Dublin presented the results[15][16][17] of investigations into the geology of the region that had started in 1977. The geologists compared the present geology with the landscapes and coastal features described in the Iliad and other classical sources, notably Strabo's Geographia. Their conclusion was that there is regularly a consistency between the location of Troy as identified by Schliemann (and other locations such as the Greek camp), the geological evidence, and descriptions of the topography and accounts of the battle in the Iliad. There are several books on the subject too. The Iliad has just as much historical evidence as the bible. That is, not a lot. Edited by rbp, : Added quote from wikipedia
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 52 by Peg, posted 06-09-2009 2:57 AM | | Peg has not replied |
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4211 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: 10-06-2007
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Message 56 of 289 (511305)
06-09-2009 5:45 AM
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Reply to: Message 51 by Peg
06-09-2009 2:55 AM
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Re: Achilles Heel
Peg writes: The city was excavated in the 1930's and they found that the double walls surrounding the city had fallen down the slope as if toppled by an earthquake or some other unseen force. Which is probably what happened, an earthquake. You keep trying to use the Bible to prove itself.
There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 51 by Peg, posted 06-09-2009 2:55 AM | | Peg has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 59 by Peg, posted 06-09-2009 6:55 AM | | bluescat48 has replied |
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Peg
Member (Idle past 4951 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: 11-22-2008
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Message 57 of 289 (511307)
06-09-2009 6:45 AM
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Reply to: Message 54 by PaulK
06-09-2009 3:36 AM
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Re: Achilles Heel
PaulK writes: To add to what has been said by Huntard, Schliemann identified the site of Troy from the description in the Illiad. Also, at least one item mentioned in the Iliad (boar's tusk helmets) have been confirmed to be real and in use at the time that the Iliad was set. did Hercules wear one?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 54 by PaulK, posted 06-09-2009 3:36 AM | | PaulK has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 58 by PaulK, posted 06-09-2009 6:49 AM | | Peg has not replied |
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PaulK
Member Posts: 17825 Joined: 01-10-2003 Member Rating: 2.2
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Message 58 of 289 (511308)
06-09-2009 6:49 AM
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Reply to: Message 57 by Peg
06-09-2009 6:45 AM
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Re: Achilles Heel
quote:
did Hercules wear one?
Eh ? What has Herakles got to do with it ? I thought we were talking about the Illiad.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 57 by Peg, posted 06-09-2009 6:45 AM | | Peg has not replied |
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Peg
Member (Idle past 4951 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: 11-22-2008
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Re: Achilles Heel
bluescat48 writes: Which is probably what happened, an earthquake. You keep trying to use the Bible to prove itself. no i dont. You stated there was no evidence for the miraculous events in the bible accounts yet archeology keeps finding them. Sure you may deny that it proves the account, but it certainly proves that there was in fact a city of Jericho that fell in the way the bible describes. And was rebuilt in the way the bible describes it. and i would feel pretty safe in saying that there is a huge amount of evidence for the bible, its people, its places and customs that archeology has found over the years and continues to find...unlike the iliad which may have geographical evidence but not much else.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 56 by bluescat48, posted 06-09-2009 5:45 AM | | bluescat48 has replied |
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2316 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: 09-02-2008
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Message 60 of 289 (511310)
06-09-2009 7:10 AM
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Reply to: Message 59 by Peg
06-09-2009 6:55 AM
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Re: Achilles Heel
Peg writes: and i would feel pretty safe in saying that there is a huge amount of evidence for the bible, its people, its places and customs that archeology has found over the years and continues to find...unlike the iliad which may have geographical evidence but not much else.
Are you saying we have NO evidence of the ancient greeks?
I hunt for the truth
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 59 by Peg, posted 06-09-2009 6:55 AM | | Peg has not replied |
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