coded information in DNA

WordBeLogos has failed, so far, to point out any example of a code, the origin of which we know by observation, that has a supernatural origin.Let me make it even easier for him.WBL, can you point out any thing ... anything at all, the origin of which we know by observation, that has a supernatural origin?Anything whatsoever?Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

I don't think you know what you're arguing. The message you just replied to wasn't about codes, it was about specified complexity and how you apparently don't even recognize your own position when someone repeats it back to you.Word, the ends do not justify the means. No God worth his salt would want you to lie in defending him, and the all-powerful Christian God needs no defenders anyway. What you're actually doing is defending your sense that you're right. Just do a couple simple things and you'll feel much better about yourself. Only write about things you understand using words that are your own, and don't ignore responses, especially to the extent of reiterating (over and over) your prior points as if they've never been rebutted.--Percy

Hi Parasomnium, If we are simply going to reduce this down to "mights," then it might actually be what it looks like.I find it interesting that many here will say DNA is not a information comunication system, while at the same time insist that gravity, pebbles and snowflakes are. I suggest you read here if you actually believe DNA is not a code. Is DNA a Code? Please read here... Alleged Examples of Naturally Occurring CodeYou have come into this discussion far to late if you still see no difference between a water molecule and the system contained in a DNA molecule, sorry. You are free to wait, I've never said it's impossible. There is just no evidence to the contrary. In the same manner, we are free to wait and see if it's true that neither matter nor energy can be destroyed. These are inferences based on the scientific method of induction. No evidence to the contrary has *EVER* been provided. Should we throw both claims out then? It most certainly does not. But you are indeed making a rational inference, *UNTIL* the one who claims otherwise shows evidence to the contrary. Can you show me evidence to the contrary that coded information systems only come from a mind? All you need is one. But it can be demonstrated not all mammals can fly. Can you demonstrate not all coded information systems come from minds?-Word

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John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

It is merely a chemical reaction that protolife took advantage of. It's been answered.AbE: I wear a red carnation as a signal to my accomplice that we're being observed; white indicates that we can speak freely. They are symbols. Neither the red nor the white carnation actually cause the event signaled. Codons causes the binding of an amino acid. It doesn't require an intelligent interpreter.Edited by lyx2no, : Later post.

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Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.

Hi, WordBeLogs. By the guy on the island who has only ever seen bats?I trow not.

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-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus)Darwin loves you.

Yes, DNA is a natural process.You have not proven otherwise so this is still a fact.First prove that something other than natural exists, beyond your incredulous opinion, then you can argue that DNA is not natural because now there is another option, not just an imagined cause.You can't introduce your imaginary friend to answer scientific questions.- Oni

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Hello Huntard, Because it leads to an infinite regress of causes that had causes themselves. This is irrational. The only rational conclusion is there must ultimately be an Uncaused (eternal) cause that has caused all caused (finite) things to exist. Ironically, this also describes the biblical God.-Word

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John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Dr, *Operating* through, and *originating* from, are two different things. A supernatural explanation is inferred. Natural processes do not stand alone as the *ONLY* known process, they have never been observed to produce information intense systems.It's simple Dr. Intelligence has been observed to do it. Not processes *KNOWN* to be absent of intelligence. But we did't make ourselves or life. So the inference is, an intelligence other than ourselves. And to go further, an intelligence that is uncaused, because finite causes need causes themselves. Which then leads to an Uncaused (eternal) cause. As a Christian myself, I believe this is the biblical God.-Word

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John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

I guess it figures that if you can't even keep your own position straight that you can't keep ours straight either. Despite your statement that many here claim DNA does not contain information, Parasomnium is one of the few in this thread to suggest this. Most of us would disagree with him. Everything in the universe contains information, and new information is being created naturally all the time. You've been provided so many examples of natural codes I've lost count. We're all waiting for you to provide an answer that goes beyond, "That's not a code."--Percy

Dr, The universe. The laws of nature did not exist prior to their creation in this universe. The creation of the universe was a supernatural event. The existence of the supernatural is a fact.-WordP.S. gnite fellas, peace.

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John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Of course it is relevant to the discussion at hand! You have not specified what exactly "immaterial information" the DNA contains. All the research I have seen indicates that DNA's function is entirely dependent on its structure, e.g. the very antithesis of "immaterial information". If you claim that there is information contained in DNA which is independent of the medium, YOU MUST SPECIFY!

Stated simply, Word, it's not possible to deduce that all codes are the product of intelligence just because some are. Even if we grant you (which personally I don't) that ALL the codes we know the origin of are the products of intelligence, the same is true.The conclusion does not follow. I know you think PMarshall has accounted for this, but there is no way out of this.

Usually this argument is not made, namely because it is a terrible argument. Before those more experienced in rebutting get a hold of it, allow me to point out some of the more glaringly obvious flaws in this thinking:1) You assume "creation" both occurred and is an artificial event, without considering any possible alternatives. For instance it may be possible that the universe simply cycles between very different sets of physical laws, or even what we perceive as the "beginning" of physical laws is actually a process well within them. In any case there is no cause to make unsupported statements like this.2) By assuming that the entire universe was created supernaturally you are destroying any possible credibility you may have been assumed to have to be able to recognize the difference between natural and supernatural phenomenon. If the universe is wholly supernatural in origin then you cannot possibly have any experience with natural things, so your ability to distinguish between them is very shaky.3) Your statement is just that, a statement. You don't show any supporting evidence whatsoever, or even any *logic*. This is an extremely poor method of debate and signals poor thinking skills.

And you, we, know this by observation...? PROBLEM, the universe wasn't "created". The 4 dimentional universe we are in was not created out of nothing, it expanded from a quantum state, therefore there was something prior to the Big Bang. It just wasn't a dimentional space. Oh, swing and a miss. Thought you had it, didn't you?Try again.- Oni

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Petition to Bailout Comedy The Laugh Factory is imploring Congress to immediately fund what owner Jamie Masada calls an "Economic Cheer-Up." If Congress fails to act quickly, the Laugh Factory comedians are planning to march to Washington and plea to President Obama.

This topic is about coded information in DNA. Please take discussion about evidence for the supernatural to another thread, or propose a new thread over at [forum=-25].

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director