You're either straight, gay, or lying?

I'm a little confused as to what exactly you mean. Are you saying that casual sex is impossible because it leads to "mental patterning" or that people are much more prone to it when they do have casual sex?

Just saw an interesting movie with this theory as a large part of the plot. It's entitled, Choke, with Sam Rockwell, an awesome and hugely underrated actor.In any case, yes, I would agree that the more a person endeavors in meaningless, casual sex, the more they desensitize themselves to meaningful relationships. I think they run a risk of being incapable of associating sex with love to the point where the two are nowhere near synonymous.Having said that, it doesn't mean that everyone who engages in casual sex is going to be incapable of having meaningful relationships because of some casual sex. But I would agree that, like with most things, there is some risk involved.

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"An idealist believes the short run doesn't count. A cynic believes the long run doesn't matter. A realist believes that what is done or left undone in the short run determines the long run." --Sydney J. Harris--

Ummmm.... Okay... Well, me, for one...Haven't you seen those very sad people that can't form meaningful relationships and live their lives in continual, destructive relationships? And you ask, "Who cares?" I care. I don't like to see people hurt. That's like saying, who cares about drug addicts? I care. They are welcome to live whatever lifestyle they choose, but shooting rays of sunshine up their ass by pretending it's not self-destructive isn't the way to go about it. So, then, tell me... If there is such a big difference between sex and love, then why do mates become jealous of affairs? Why do they feel so hurt if it's just sex? Yes, I agree to an extent, but I think you are oversimplifying. Wouldn't you also agree that there are different forms of love. Is my love for music the same as my love for my dog? Is the love for my dog the same as my love for my father? Is my love for my father the same as the love for my wife? Is the love for my wife the same as the love for my son?I'm not saying that if you engage in some casual sex that you'll all-of-a-sudden turn in to some sex-crazed, disease-infested whore. Shit, I've had plenty of casual sex in my time. I'm just recognizing that there are consequences for our actions. The human psyche is a fragile thing; more fragile than I think we aware of. I'm simply saying that the more we indulge in it and trivial sex, the more social problems we run the risk of having.Is that really such a bizarre interpretation? Great, but that doesn't mean that's the norm, nor does it mean that there are not issues within that relationship because of that lifestyle. Very few couples can actually live a swinger lifestyle while maintaining a healthy relationship. I, too, know swinger couples. And from what I've seen, the cream inevitably rises to the surface. If what you speak of was true in most cases, the entire world would live this way. The evidence is overwhelmingly not in your favor. And it is entirely independent of cultural differences. Seems like there is something a little more hardwired than that, knowing that this is the case. You have to ask yourself why that is while trying to sell the pipe dream.To reiterate: If you want to have lots of casual sex with lots of willing partners, you are more than welcome to it. But I also don't think that Taz's observations here are ridiculous. He makes a good point, as do you to some degree. Edited by Hyroglyphx, : typoEdited by Hyroglyphx, : reworded a statement

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"An idealist believes the short run doesn't count. A cynic believes the long run doesn't matter. A realist believes that what is done or left undone in the short run determines the long run." --Sydney J. Harris--

Maybe it was a Freudian slip?

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"An idealist believes the short run doesn't count. A cynic believes the long run doesn't matter. A realist believes that what is done or left undone in the short run determines the long run." --Sydney J. Harris--

... Yeesh... Good point!

I understand that and agree. All I am really saying is that with many people it is known to cause some problems. That does not mean everyone. But in all reality, how many hookers out there find a deep sense of job satisfaction? How many are really fucked up in the head, due in part to their job? I think it takes a toll on people more than they are aware. Ah, but that begs the question... Why must one lie in the first place? Obviously there is a stigma that exists before the action of lying or cheating begins, right? So, it's self-defeating to say that it is because of lying and betrayal, especially when taken in its context. I'm not suggesting that they always apply. There are exceptions to every rule. I am speaking about normative, human behavior. Not everyone feels remorse, as in the case with sociopaths, but most people do. That's a good thing. Naturally, but right now you are comparing apples to oranges. So because life itself involves risk, it somehow undermines specific risks? That's being far too broad. Normative behavior is a predominant behavioral trait shared by a species. Doctors and scientists don't so much assign as it as they do observe the phenomena and then report on it. But I don't think it is a matter of right or wrong. I'm not saying there is some moral imperative at hand here. I'm just saying that there is a dichotomy here. The evidence I was referring to is all around us in society. It's observational. Which societies? Want some more armchair psychology? I'm being perfectly respectful in this conversation and you are growing more agitated as time goes on. Sometimes (as in, NOT ALWAYS) people that become easily offended by remarks that don't involve them often lash out because subconsciously they agree to some degree, but don't want it to be so. So instead of having a calm conversion, they attack defensively as a self-defense mechanism.How's that for armchair psychology?Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.

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"An idealist believes the short run doesn't count. A cynic believes the long run doesn't matter. A realist believes that what is done or left undone in the short run determines the long run." --Sydney J. Harris--

I can only speak on experience. I've never been to the Netherlands and the only time I was ever in Vegas was in the airport. Didn't see too many people hooking there. So I can't comment on those two cities.But I have lived in a lot of different large cities in the US. And while there are of course many different reasons for a person's mental state, doesn't one usually lead to the other?

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"An idealist believes the short run doesn't count. A cynic believes the long run doesn't matter. A realist believes that what is done or left undone in the short run determines the long run." --Sydney J. Harris--

Yeah, that pretty much summarizes my position. Rahvin seems to think that I'm invoking and advocating some puritanical life as the only way to live. Pshhh... Far from it! In fact, it could be said that people that come from strict, puritanical backgrounds are just as fucked up, if not more, than people who trivialize sex.All I offered was that with sex comes some responsibilities and some consequences. If someone literally slept with a new stranger every day of their lives, I'm sorry, but eventually you are going to objectify men or women to some degree. I think eventually as a self-defense mechanism, they might do what they can to disassociate feelings of love and/or affection with sex as much as possible. Chomsky's position here is shocking to me. This guy is as liberal as it gets. Huh... Yeah, good points...See, the people that advocate loose sex the most often can do so only because of that intentional detachment. How many fathers want their daughters to be loose? Honestly... Who? It doesn't happen.I don't want to give anyone the wrong impression here. I like sex a whole lot. But things that we like may not always be the best things for us. I like pizza too, but by that logic should I eat the shit every damn day? No, that wouldn't healthy. I like money, but does that mean that I'm willing to let it control me? No. Sometimes we feel like literally killing people that piss us off. Imagine if we followed every impulse that flashed in our mind.So, that's kind of how I feel about casual sex. I just attach a small caveat with it. I don't think that people that engage in it are doomed or anything. I just think that, like it is with most anything else, there is some risk involved... And not just physically with diseases.The interesting thing about it is the irony. On the one hand, people that are in serious and monogamous relationships end up getting that itch to stray, even if it's a fleeting glance through a surge of hormones. You know, just because you're in a relationship doesn't mean that all of a sudden you aren't attracted to other people.Ironically, people that do have lots of casual sex either long for love or flee from it, perhaps to mask some pain. Therein lies the dichotomy of the situation.

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"An idealist believes the short run doesn't count. A cynic believes the long run doesn't matter. A realist believes that what is done or left undone in the short run determines the long run." --Sydney J. Harris--

Read my last post to Onifre and you will understand my position, which I freely admit is based on my own opinion, which was based on my own observations. But if it makes you feel any better, please find an empirical study conducted on monogamous versus polyamorous relationships in relation to emotional states. Somehow I don't see that being either readily available or ever conducted in the first place. Must suffer??? I made it clear from my first post, and consistently up to now, that not everyone that engages in casual sex is going to be fucked up in the head or unloving. Never... Not even once. Your exaggerations are unnecessary character assassination.I have engaged in casual sex. Hell I enjoyed it. And I would like to think that I'm in a stable monogamous relationship now and am capable of love. What I said before and what I will say again, is that people that consistently seek out casual sex are running a risk of becoming consumed by the prospect. I think they run the risk of objectifying. I think they run the risk of damaging any prospect of fostering a lasting and deep commitment in the future.There is a difference between someone who uses drugs and someone who is a drug addict. A drug user is not necessarily a drug addict. However, with prolonged use, that user runs a risk of becoming an addict. What precise cocktail or circumstances are necessary for someone to make the jump is probably invariable. It is probably a combination of genetics, upbringing, personal resolve, etc, etc.I just don't see how someone like, say, Jenna Jameson, has a wonderful relationship with Tito Ortiz. Maybe that's ignorant of me to say. I won't discount that. But I didn't assign the stigma, society did. And there is that whole thing about stereotypes. There is a reason why they exist, and the fact that somebody noticed them and characterized them is not entirely the fault of the one who noticed it. In fact, the one who exhibited the traits assigned it to themselves! Go figure... Well, then, in keeping of the tone of what is or isn't normal... Normal people don't get as pissy as you did for literally no reason. Not only was I not talking to you, but my observations were meant to be fair, balanced, non-offensive and completely non-threatening. If you felt offended then I would suggest taking a deeper look in to your own mind to see why you reacted the way you did, because somehow I think it has less to do with me than it does you.Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.

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"An idealist believes the short run doesn't count. A cynic believes the long run doesn't matter. A realist believes that what is done or left undone in the short run determines the long run." --Sydney J. Harris--

Damn, your posts are too long... I'll have to summarize. How can I present an empirical claim if one likely does not exist? Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you hypocritically doing the same thing by using anecdotes? And how is exactly is your opinion valid, while mine is not? Because you said so? LOL! Yeah, right back at you. Everything you are saying to me applies to your own opinions, so... My use of drug addicts vs drug usage is more a metaphor than it was about addiction. Oh, but not the other way around though, right? How convenient.I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree. This really isn't a hill that I want to die on because quite frankly I really don't care enough about the subject or the position to go on endlessly debating it.One last question: If the whole world lived the way you and your significant other do, would society concurrently be improved or harmed in the process?

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"An idealist believes the short run doesn't count. A cynic believes the long run doesn't matter. A realist believes that what is done or left undone in the short run determines the long run." --Sydney J. Harris--

Petro, don't be silly! Total hedonism has no consequence whatsoever... Rahvin told me so, so it therefore has to be true.

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"An idealist believes the short run doesn't count. A cynic believes the long run doesn't matter. A realist believes that what is done or left undone in the short run determines the long run." --Sydney J. Harris--

Damn hecklers... Your story just reminded me of an awesome documentary that you being a stand-up comic were sure to have seen: Vince Vaughn's Wild West Comedy Show!

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"An idealist believes the short run doesn't count. A cynic believes the long run doesn't matter. A realist believes that what is done or left undone in the short run determines the long run." --Sydney J. Harris--

Those were easily two of my favorite one's. Bret Ernst and "Tony" the skater... I thought I read somewhere that you were from Miami? Tell me that skit doesn't remind you of Hot Wheels...

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"An idealist believes the short run doesn't count. A cynic believes the long run doesn't matter. A realist believes that what is done or left undone in the short run determines the long run." --Sydney J. Harris--

Yeah, sure, I used to skate there as a kid! That is until I realized how lame it was. Is their a Palmetto High in Broward too? The only one I'm familiar with is in Miami-Dade, way fuckin' south. Yeah, I know... His skit brought back memories about Hot Wheels and god-awful Miami bass and techno. The fact that he gets his underwear pressed and dry cleaned, then hung on a hanger has to have at least a mild form of OCD! But his skits are friggin' hilarious... Absolutely hysterical

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"An idealist believes the short run doesn't count. A cynic believes the long run doesn't matter. A realist believes that what is done or left undone in the short run determines the long run." --Sydney J. Harris--