Hey onifre,
If all finite things have a cause, then it's ok to assume that DNA had a cause. The difference in your argument is that you invoke a supernatural causal agent, where as the rest of science invokes natural, chemical reactions.
For the information / code, which operates through the matter of the molecule, yes. That's the distinction that needs to be made here. The information. I have been very clear from the beginning about the difference between the message and the medium. The molecule is the medium. The ordering of the base pairs carries the message / code / information.
The question that science can’t answer is where the code came from. The question of where the molecule came from is an important one, but is not what's being asked here.
Let's assume that neither side has evidence for either position.
Ok, not counting the evidence that intelligence is the only known source to create codes.
What makes more sense to you, that natural chemical reactions that are known to exist, can be studied, can be verifed and checked, and experimented on, was the cause...?
OR
Some unknown force that can't be seen, studied, experimented on, that, mind you, breaks the laws of physics, and it itself has no known explanation, was the cause...
You will have to speak for yourself on that one. Because He may be unknown to you, and science through the scientific method, doesn't mean He is unknown to others through a different means.
Also, as for the appeal to what makes more sense, it did make more sense the earth was flat, at one time.
Let me guess which one your heart tells you is the correct one?
Not my heart alone, (which by the way, cannot be shown to not be one of the ways God can be known), but by reason and logic using the scientific method of induction. I know codes are *ALWAYS* the product of mind. I know biological minds did not make the code in DNA. Therefore, some other mind can be rationally inferred, not because of a gap in knowledge, BUT because of the knowldge we *DO HAVE,* that intelligence stands *ALONE* as the only *KNOWN* source able to produce codes.
But you are free to wait for some unknown source, that's your choice.
onifre writes:
Word writes:
The only logical conclusion is, that there must ultimately be some original Uncaused (eternal) cause of all finite things which themselves have been caused.
This would some-what make sense if DNA was the first known thing, element, chemical, to exist. As I pointed out to you in the post you ignored, the elements that make up DNA came way before DNA; so did the elements ALSO need a creator, or is it OK to go with nucleosynthesis?
If I have sticks on my driveway that say..
"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."
...and knowing that these sticks are ultimately the product of nucleosynthesis, it still doesn't explain where the message came from.
In other words, if DNA required devine intervention, then everything before it that makes up DNA must also require devine intervention. Because if not, what you are saying is that this unknown causing entity waited billions of years for all the elements to emerge naturally from the core of stars, waited til the stars went supernova, waited for a specific planet to contain all of the required elements in it's environment THEN said "you know what, let me arrange these few elements together to create something that I will then just leave alone to evolve."
Sorry, dude, but that sounds crazy!
Do you feel that a infinite, timeless God for some reason would be in some kind of hurry?
Stars form, elements form within it, they go supernova, planets form, planets contain these elemnets and through the same natural order that gave us everything leading up to it,
Just think of the Big Bang as a quantum seed.
DNA forms from a more basic RNA.
Yes, we can speculate that.
All this other stuff about "intelligence being the only thing that brings about codes" is just nonsense that you've fed yourself to justify a belief in God, that, while it works to satisfy your belief, fails miserably as a scientific hypothesis.
Because science can only speak to that which is physical, information is immaterial. The sequences of nucleotides or amino acids that carry a genetic message have explicit specificity. (Otherwise how does the organism live?) Of course, the genetic message, when expressed as a sequence of symbols, is nonmaterial but must be recorded in matter or energy" (Yockey, 2005, p. 7)
Because DNA is finite.
You forget that DNA is also made up of smaller components. Elements, which have their origin in stars, who have their origin in hydrogen gas, which has it's origin at the Big Bang, which has it's origin in...
DNA is finite in and of itself, but what makes it up is not. It regresses back all the way to the origin of our universe.
Are you saying the universe is infinite?
Equally, you are finite as "Word", but your origin can also regress all the way back to the origin of the universe.
Carl Sagan, man, "we are all star stuff"...not "supernatural stuff".
Yes, I agree, the bag of molecules we live in is. Do you believe it is merely our molecules that are having this discussion or something else?
Edited by WordBeLogos, : No reason given.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
™ Version 4.2