Christian Laws

The most important Christian law is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2) That is the spontaneous outworking in the behavior of the believer in view of the fact that Jesus Christ Himself is living within them. The Spirit of life is a Person and not merely a force. He is a spiritual Person who comes to indwell the believer in Christ. In submitting to Him, spontaneously righteousness comes out in the actions and reactions of the believer.It takes time to learn. And the experience grows deeper and deeper with maturity.Every life has its own law so to speak. The cat has a mouse catching law. The dog as a barking law. The apple tree has an apple bearing law. The whale has a swimming law. All lives have a law which can be considered the law of that life.Christ Jesus as the incarnate God in man become the life giving Spirit has His law. That is the law of His divine life. It will act a certain way. It will spontaneously and automiatically live righteously. If we receive Christ into our hearts and allow Him to make His home in our hearts, the law of His life will permeat our human life. We will live Christ out. We will express the Christ who lives in us from within.So Paul said "For me to live is Christ ..."Christ spontaneously flows out of him because Paul has brought his whole soul and personality under the influence of this indwelling Christ and the law of the Spirit of life.Paul gives some practical instructions to slaves, wives, husbands and children in the church life in Ephesus. He preceeds them with an exhortation to be filled in spirit.In other words these instructions are not to be carried out in the strength of the natural man. The believers are to be filled in thier spirit with the Holy Spirit. The instructions are guidelines showing the path of morality the Spirit of Christ within them will likely take them. Their consciences are to be sensative to it. And they are to cooperate with His inner moving them along these paths of morality.See Ephesians 5:18 - 6:9His moral instructions conclude with this word: You have to get your being in the sphere and the realm of this Person and His strength. This empowering takes place "in the Lord".The inward indwelling Person of Christ is the enabling, the empowering which supplies and supports the disciples to be able to live such a high standard of morality. It is not a given without cooperation and patience to learn how to apply this Person who comes to live within His believers.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Romans 8:4 says "That the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to [the] spirit." In the Greek there is no definite article before the word "spirit". This makes it difficult for translators to know whether Paul meant the Holy Spirit or the human spirit. Therefore the best understanding is that Paul meant the mingled spirit. That is the Holy Spirit in the human spirit, mingled together as "one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17) Paul's exhortation is for regenerated Christians, who have been joined to the Lord Jesus to be "one spirit" with Lord, should walk step by step according to this united and mingled spirit. The Spirit of Jesus Christ indwells the reborn Christian's spirit and s/he must develop the habit to walk according to this union of the Holy Spirit with his or her human spirit.In this walking, ie. living, is the fulfillment of the law of God spontaneously. Whatever the law of God requires can be spontaneously fulfilled not in mere human power but because of the grace and support supplied to the Christian by the indwelling Spirit of Christ moving in their spirit. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

You have a good point. The Bible uses the phrase in two different ways which could make it confusing.On one hand the new covenant that the prophet Jeremiah speaks of will consist of the writing of God's laws into the hearts of the recipients of that covenant.On the other hand Paul writes that all mankind has "the work of the law" is written on all of our hearts: In the first passage Jeremiah and then Paul speak of the new covenant being God inscribing or writing His law "organically" into the human heart. This should really mean Christ comes into the human spirit as the divine life to mingle with the recipient. Christ's indwelling becomes the new law that the believer must learn to flow with that righteousness is spontaneously expressed.In the second passage Paul is saying something like the human conscience of all peoples testifies that there is something in their ethics and morality that indictes they know what is the right to do. The passage does not say that they have the ability to carry it out all the time. It does say that thier conscience informs them that they know what is the law of God intuitively. I would take that only in its moral aspect and not that they know what ritualistic ordinances Moses precsribed. ie. keeping the Sabbath Day.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Purpledawn writes: There are consequences for not being conformed to the image of Christ. The consequences are very wide in scope. They extend from being "hurt by the second death" to losing a reward.The consequences cover a wide range of possibities of temporary discipline, not only in this age but also in the age after the second coming of Christ.Otherwise, for example, the Apostle Paul would not speak to the Corinthian church about suffering loss though being saved: " SAVED .... yet so as through FIRE."No consequences to Christians to not living by Him and being made mature ? There are many passages which prove otherwise is taught.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Peg, I am inclined to think James meant nothing other than the law of Moses in James 1:25, 2:12 .The new testament church went through a transition from the old judaism law keeping into understanding of living by the grace of Christ. Of all the NT writers James represents the most primitive in this transition.He boasted to Paul about how many thousands in the church in Jerusalem were keepers of the law. He persuaded Paul to conduct himself as an old testament law keeper. However God did not seem to honor it. It all blew up in Paul's face. He went to prison and there wrote some of his clearest epistles on the new testment grace.I think James had one foot still in the old covenant Mosiac law keeping. Still in the development of the church he was an important transitional figure.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

I did not say that there were laws to list. I did say that there were consequences to not obeying and being conformed to the image of Christ.There are some charges or commands in the New Testament. I am saying that we should not think of them as the 11th, 12th, 13th, ... Nth Commandments meant to be added on to the Ten Commandments.I already provided a strong verse on the consequence of being "saved yet so as through fire" from First Corinthians. Now I will provide another strong one uttered FOUR times in the Gospels: These passages are spoken to His disciples. Jesus comes to transform the mind, emotion, and will of His disciple. He comes to transform the soul. If the disciples resist this transformation preserving the soul they will one day lose it.Losing the soul here does not mean losing eternal salvation. But it does mean suffering the loss of the soul's enjoyment. That enjoyment is mainly in the kingdom immediately following Christ's return:"For the Son of Man is to come in the glory of His Father with His angels and then He will repay each man according to his doings." The Son of Man will return and repay the disciples according to their works. These works are the works allowing Christ to transform their soul into the image of Christ. They are to take up thier cross and follow Him rather than follow themselves. They are to deny themselves and instead enjoy the living Christ. If they do they will lose their soul-life in this age but they will be transformed and enjoy thier soul in the kingdom age at Christ's return. That will be their reward for allowing Christ to sanctify them.If they postpone this sanctification and transformation, there is the danger that when Jesus returns they will lose the delight of thier soul and suffer loss as a consquence. Not allowing Christ to conform the disciples to His image can have a temporary negative consequence.If this is too esoteric I can give you passages which spell it out in no uncertain terms. Like Luke 12:47. Here you can plainly see degrees of punishment upon His servants based on how much they should have known better.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

I already gave you one important requirement - deny yourself and follow the Lord, ie. picking up your cross to follow Christ.How that is applied to each disciple is the business of the Lord Jesus. The proper and expected level of denying oneself to follow the living Lord is something under His control and is relative to each disciple's level of growth in the spiritual life.He is a living God. Don't try to reduce Him into a computer flow chart.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

I understand 2 Thess. 1:7,8 in context to refer mainly to the persecutors of Christians and not slothful or defeated believers.Here is why "Since it is just with God to repay with affliction those afflicting you, and to you who are being afflicted, rest with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with the angels of His power, in flaming fire, rendering vengence ...."This is a matter of God rendering vengence for opposition to the Christians rather than discipline on the Christians.1.) Those who do not know God must be atheist types.2.) Those who do not obey the gospel of Christ are those who heard the gospel and did not obey to believe.The penalty is "eternal destruction"."They will pay the penalty of eternal destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His strength" (v.9)Eternal destruction is not the portion of any backslidden or immature Christians. They shall never perish forever. Those worthy of discipline are "saved yet so as through fire". That is not eternal perdition.Here is a verse applying definitely to Christians: This passage is about meeting the Lord Jesus when He comes. Contrary to poorer translations it is not a matter of "feeling" shamed. It is a matter of being "put to shame". The teaching is general and does not here detail what this means. But for certain there is the possibility that a upon meeting Christ in His return a Christian could be "put to shame from Him at His coming" .In other words this could be the consequence of not abiding in Him - "And now little children, abide in Him ..."This is a very important "law" if you wish. That is to abide in Him. To linger in His presence. To log more and more time in fellowship with Christ. To remain in Him and under His instant moment by moment enfluence. He is the true vine and the disciples are the branches. So the Apostle John tells the believers to abide in Him so that when He does appear in His second coming we may not be put to shame from Him. This is a temporary consequence and not eternal punishment.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

There is only one living God. There are not multiple "living Gods".And God is not only large. He can be very small, small enough to eat. He can be as small as a wafer of manna to fit into the mouth. He can be small enough as a breath of air or a drink of water.So enjoying Christ has been a matter of a grandiose Person but one small emough to assimilate in traffic, while washing dishes, while changing diapers. He is a God small enough to be assimlated in a detailed and practical way in the mundanes of life.I think you are speaking from your unbelief. You are speaking from your unbelief. I am sorry He has no presence for you. But since I received Jesus Christ He certainly has a presence for me which I am enjoying at this moment. And I can concur with what His words:"Behold I am with you all the days until the consummation of the age." (Matt. 20:20)You are speaking out of your lack of belief and shortage of experience.But I have to stop here this this morning.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This is Christ's word to all His followers. Paul was not there in that group. Yet Paul in following Jesus wrote: And Paul was set forth as "a pattern to t hose who are to believe Him unto eternal life." (1 Tim. 1:16)As a leading example of a normal disciple of Christ, Paul, not being of the twelve to whom Jesus spoke that word, nevertheless reacts by counting all things refuse in comparison to the value of Christ and the preciousness of being found in Him. In other words those who trust Jesus for eternal life should also go on to be disciples of Jesus. The Hermits took this word and renounced worldly possessions. It was latter realized that even in the matter of relinquishing possession this is up to the guidance of Christ.I think your usage of the passage has the aim of ridicule or slander as opposed to honestly seeking understanding of the Christian life. You may own things without being attached to them so that they are more important that the Lord Jesus.Another quite mature discple, John, tells us that anything that replaces the Triune God in the Chritian's life is an idol. The net effect is that nothing should REPLACE the preeminence of the true God and Christ in the lives of His followers. We may own things. But nothing should become an idol as to become more dear to us that God and Christ and living in God and Christ as the eternal life.Obviously, if you own nothing how then can you obey that portion of Christ's teaching to share and give to those in need?So you have to learn not only what the Bible says but what else the Bible says. Actually in a very real sense He didn't leave us at all.Of the four Gospels two record Jesus going away and two give no word about this. Mark and Luke record Jesus departing. These books are balanced by John and Matthew. Both John and Matthew do not close with the idea that Jesus has left to go away.Particularly Matthew emphasizes that He is with the disciple as "Emmanuel - God With Us" all the days until the close of the church age: There is quite a lot about the Jesus who is available now, present now, approachablee now, touchable now, ready to have fellowship with and follow now, and ready to enjoy here and now.On one hand He is at the right hand of God (Romans 8:34). But in the same chapter He is the Christ who is in the disciples (Romans 8:10)His words "Abide in Me and I in you" inform us that His timing as to when to relinquish or obtain material things is what we must learn. This is a loving and patient and wise Master.If a person receives Jesus as Lord today maybe the living Christ will not immediately ask him to walk out of his house leaving everything. Perhaps one evening this week He may just say "How about you give Me one half hour to pray and read the Gospel tonight instead of watching TV?" If you obey then you grow stronger and He will gradually mature you. This is a gentle, wise, patient Master who comes to live in our hearts.Jesus told John to take his mother Mary into his own care. John had a home to take Mary the mother of Jesus (John 19:26,27). So let's be a little discerning here and not take one passage, run headlong into a foolish comprehension of the New Testament. I have not been avoiding the issue. It seems your sole concern is to rationalize disbelieving in Christ. You seem to be mustering your intellect to discredit the Gospel.As for me, I always asked God to lead me to Christians who could help my faith rather thatn hurt it. So what faults of preachers or teachers I never allowed it to discourage me from following on to know the Jesus who I met in the privacy of my living room.I did not hunt for reasons to doubt Christ. Nor did I labor on rationals and excuses to not receive Him as Lord and Savior. So while you are standing on the wayside complaining, many of us are going on to deepen our experience of this Wonderful Lord and going on to the kingdom.The gates of Hell shall not prevail against the builded church, even if they make a lot of mistakes on the way to the end. The first instruction is "Abide in Me and I in you".First you have to get into Christ. Are you eager to get into this resurrected living Christ or are you scared or resistant ?Are you using unclearness about what He wants as a handy excuse to not receive Him as your own Lord and Savior ? It will be interesting to see someone like you stand before God and charge Him with such a moral lesson. Are you saying that you wish to be a slave of Jesus Christ ? Or are you saying that from a distance you have decided that it is not worth it ?You don't have to answer to me. It is a matter between you and God.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

One more time. Start here with this requirement - Abide in Me and I in you.First requirement, receive Him and abide in Him. I am giving you an answer. You want your answer in your way thirty or forty commandments like "Thou Shalt, Thou Shalt Not".You want me to continue the ten commandments Christian style. You may have some ground to expect me to speak in those terms. But I do not."Give me your Christian Laws." I want "Don't touch this, Don't look at that, Don't do this, Don't do that, etc, etc, etc," a neat "list" of instructions that if you DO these things you are a Christian.I told you we start here "Abide in Me and I in you".If you showed some willingness to see Christ's need for man to get into Him as a living Realm and a living Sphere and REMAIN, Abide, in that realm so that He in His living being could in turn Abide in us, then perhaps we could go on.But the way I speak to you is the way I would speak to ANY convert to the Gospel. First you have to learn to Abide in Him and allow Him to Abide in you. Some "Christian traditions" should be doubted.If you read the book of Galatians you might see that the diciples are told to "Walk by the Spirit and you shall by no means fulfill the lust of the flesh"The Judiazers were doing much what you desire. They wanted to put the Galatian Christians back under the law of Moses. They did not understand Grace in any regard, neither its redemption by nor empowering and enabling to live righteously.Paul's word about the empowering of this indwelling grace of Christ: The Grace is the empowering to live righteously. Paul reminds the disciples that this empowering is with their innermost being. Since they received Christ Jesus into their being His resides in thier innermost person. He is with their spirit. And His grace is their with Him in their spirit.The Holy Spirit is mingled with the human spirits of those who have been born of the Spirit - "He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17)So to abide in the Lord and to allow His grace to empower them to live Christ they must excercise their spirit and turn to their spirit where the Spirit of Jesus is.Christ became the life giving Spirit - "The last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45) This is why Jesus Christ Himself can come and abide in the innermost being of human beings.Once again, the Christian's very first requirement is to abide in Him and allow Him to abide in us. Traditions are not all inspired by God. For example, Christmas is a religious tradition. It is really pre-Christians Saturnalia. The Roman Catholic Church, in order to make the Christian Gospel polular, assimilated pagan traditions and gave them a supposedly Christian spin.That is an example of a "Christian tradition" if you will that should be questioned. Mary worship, paying endulgences, Babylonian style religious garb worn by ekklesiastical heirarchy are other so called "Christian traditions" which have nothing to do with the New Testament.These are not the only questionable traditions. I use them as representative of the problem, a problem which Christ prophesied would occur in Matthew 13.At any rate my practice is to allow the Master to rise above me and critique me. You seem to suggest that the Master come and sit at purpledawn's feet and learn a thing or two about being the Lord and Savior. Slightly ridiculous.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Maybe you think the New Testament should just have consisted of a list of about 10 to 15 commandments rather than 27 books.Do you treat your professional life the same way? Did you attend college? Surely they could have just given you a list of a few things to know. Why four or more years of study?I think you probably hypocritically demand a level of absence of interpretative need to the Gospel of Christ which you do not demand for any other serious or worthwhile pursuit of human life.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

It suggests that the nations had gods. But Yahweh was the true God. [b]"Thus says Jehovah the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, Jehovah ofhosts, I am the First and I am the Last, And apart from Me there is no God." (Isa. 44:6)Jehovah (Yahweh) is the true God as the Uncreated Life, though many created evil angels and Satanic demons may have deceived the nations through the nation's idols."And you are My witnesses. Is there a God besides Me? Or is there any [other] Rock? I do not know of [any]." (44:8)"Turn to Me and be saved, All the ends of the earth. For I am God adthere is no one else." (45:22) We should not be confused by speech elsewhere which talks about the gods being judged and so forth. The God of Israel is the one Uncreated Life and as such is the living God. That utterance is similar to the declarations of Isaiah which I just quoted. "[N]o other gods before Me" does not negate that Jehovah is the God and there is none other. In other words false gods there certainly were. As said false gods there were and are.As for Jesus being Son of God, the Bible means that He is God become a man. He is the mingling of God and man. It is as God is going through a kind of journey or process to make Himself one with man. Jesus as Son of God is a cardinal point in this process. He is God/Man united.In Isaiah 9:6 there are two lines of revelation. One line is that the created child who is born will be called Mighty God. The other is that the Son given will be called Eternal Father.This is Wonderful or PELEH. That word is used to discribe something too high for our powers to comprehend. For instance:"O knowledge too wonderful [PELEH] for me! It is high, I cannot attain to it." (Psalm 139:6).

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"Is anything too hard for the Lord?" (Gen. 18:14).

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"Why do you ask My name, seeing it is Wonderful! (Judges 13:18)Now I am called away to an errand and will have to talk latter.But that Jesus, by saying He was Son of God, was perceived by the high priest to something OTHER than their Hebrew understanding of children or sons of God is evident. Of course if Jesus saying He was the Son of God was a benigh matter that they might have applied to ANY typical Israelite they would not have charged Him with blasphemy and condemned Him to death.So appealing to other references of God's children or sons ( of which references I am familiar ) you cannot dull the force of Christ's claim.Similiarly, they understood His proclaimation to be Son of God in John 5:18 was making Himself equal with God. Jesus in His reply acknowledges that the phrase has been used elsewhere in Scripture. But He does not back away from the fact that He is a unique One consecrated and sent into the world.I have to stop here for now.

Not phrased well. What I mean is that what I am telling you about "abiding" in Christ and learning to let Christ abide in you, is something we never graduate from. Whether a brand new Christian just regenerated or one of many years. It is also appropriate to a seeking person wanting to know about Christ's requirement.You're at least asking. I don't know if you are seeking Christ or something else."As you received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him" I am discussing. However I am not arguing for Peg. Neither did I agree with all that I saw Peg wrote. However, I may not have read every post you or Peg wrote on this thread.I'm not arguing for Peg. Because Jesus told John and the 12 "Go therefore and disciple all the nations ... teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. (Matt. 28:19)Why do you think John included that statement in his Gospel ? The plot thickens ? I hope. Do you believe that Jesus rose fromt the dead ? If you do not then you'll be perplexed as to how in the world we can abide in Him.First you have to believe that Christ is alive to abide in. Then you excercise some faith to receive Him. Now, I didn't say it is always easy.But we can receive Christ and abide in Christ. Some biographes are good on this. One old classic one was called The Practice of the Presence of God by one cook among monks Brother Lawrence.This is not a recommnendation of a monk like life. That is not the point. My point is that this Christian wrote a book long regarded as helpful for many years, on abiding in Christ's presence.The Normal Christian Life by Watchman Nee is also excellent.Help is there if you really want it. Thank God every Christian didn't throw up their hands in dispair resigned that the New Testament was too obscure to be meaningful. It is its own fundamental requirement. Without abiding in Him we can do nothing. Or another way said, We may do a lot but for God's kingdom it will all amount to nothing.This is a discussion Internet style and I don't intend to write a book here to answer some of your questions in great detail.But for learning all about the experience of Christian life I would recommend two books by Witness Lee -"The Experience of Life" and "The Knowledge of Life"The English word here for Life means the Greek word ZOE - the divine life. From regeneration to learning to walk in the Spirit these books were very practical and helpful to many including myself.Here is a look inside the book The Knowledge of Life.
Hit the tag on the right that says "Look inside the book".
Perhaps you could first look at the chapter titles or read some portions.Online Shopping India Mobile, Cameras, Lifestyle & more Online @ Flipkart.comTo abide in Christ you have to learn how to deal with many things like confession of sins, opening the soul to Christ, obeying the sense of life, learning to feed the inner man with the word of God, fellowshipping with other Christians, etc. many lessons.With patience and practice and a life long commitment of consecration, we, just like John or Paul or Peter, may learn to abide in Christ and He abide in us.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Genesis 1:1 states " In the beginning God created that heavens and the earth".It stands to reason that since He preceeded all creation He is Uncreated Life. It certainly says that of no other being. And there is no hint that God's life had a beginning - "From eternity to eternity You are God".So God as the Uncreated Life is quite logical biblically speaking.Incidently, I am glad that you got professional attention with the psychotic problems you mentioned briefly. I am happy that someone was able to help you. God does provide guidance to medical attention sometimes.He used Luke, a physician, to write the Gospel of Luke and the book of Acts. And this doctor was a traveling companion of the Apostle Paul.So being a Christian never need be ANTI medical or ANTI mental health. What did I avoid ? I did have to run off for an errand. Can't type here all day.Did I leave some comment of yours unaddressed ? I usually try to answer any reasonably respectful inquiry if I can. Now we can talk about your OWN theories put forth.Paul, if you mean Paul, was very faithful as an apostle of Jesus. What did Paul say about that ?What did Jesus say about that ?Both said that they had met one another in the book of Acts.
And he acted like it. And the other apostles realized that he acted like it. And Peter recommended his writings as scripture. That's a loaded question. Its like "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.