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Author Topic:   Could life evolve in the vacuum of outer space?
onifre
Member (Idle past 2972 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 4 of 29 (512415)
06-17-2009 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by howdoideletethis
06-17-2009 12:23 PM


Now, most people's first thought would be (other than skepticism) alien spacecraft!
People are generally skeptical of everything, so I would say that the first natural thought is to be skeptical. Not simply to assign one particular possibility the credit.
"There's no gravity, there's no oxygen, there's too much radiation,"
Well first, there is gravity. Furthermore, chemical elements aren't abundant because they are usually "picked up" by the mass objects in space.
So I would think, for life to sustain in the vacuum of space, it would still have to evolve on a mass object where the available elements would be, and a stable environment that could facilitate a long process like evolution.
Here is the video (which, with or without seeing this video, it's still a compelling question):
I was able to watch the video, since my "job" places no restrictions on what I view , and it appears to be, which is funny because he didn't even watch the video, exactly what Perdition described.
- Oni

Petition to Bailout Comedy The Laugh Factory is imploring Congress to immediately fund what owner Jamie Masada calls an "Economic Cheer-Up." If Congress fails to act quickly, the Laugh Factory comedians are planning to march to Washington and plea to President Obama.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by howdoideletethis, posted 06-17-2009 12:23 PM howdoideletethis has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by howdoideletethis, posted 06-17-2009 4:59 PM onifre has replied
 Message 10 by Perdition, posted 06-17-2009 6:03 PM onifre has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2972 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 12 of 29 (512424)
06-17-2009 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by howdoideletethis
06-17-2009 4:59 PM


Hi TristanMC, and I didn't say it before, but welcome to EvC.
But like I said, the video isn't important, just food for thought.
Fair enough.
But would some other type of being, possibly energetic, form in space?
Anything that "forms in space" will consist of energy. To include, things that form on things that formed in space. But it must take a form, it can't just be energy. Rahvin's post explains why perfectly.
Definite energy with a conscience?
Consciousness is nothing more than this bodies interaction with it's environment through it's sensory system. It's awareness to a high degree.
So, for consciousness to exist it must have developed a sensory function, but a consciousness as complex as ours will not emerge from a basic sensory system. Therefore, a complex sensory system is required for complex consciousness. Without a host, there are no means to acheive this complex sensory system, and thus no way of a complex consciousness to emerge.
Energy is not a thing that has emergent properties, therefore the "emergence of consciousness" is not even possible.
- Oni

Petition to Bailout Comedy The Laugh Factory is imploring Congress to immediately fund what owner Jamie Masada calls an "Economic Cheer-Up." If Congress fails to act quickly, the Laugh Factory comedians are planning to march to Washington and plea to President Obama.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by howdoideletethis, posted 06-17-2009 4:59 PM howdoideletethis has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2972 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 14 of 29 (512426)
06-17-2009 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Perdition
06-17-2009 6:03 PM


As for the video, I didn't really need to see it to have a good guess at what it was. If you watch "The Right Stuff" you see an instance where one of the first astronauts thinks there are fireflies in space with him. It turned out to be frozen bits of water or exhaust from his ship.
Yea most of the videos of UFO's turn out to be fake. My point was that it was easy for you to figure it out even without having to watch the video, since it has been covered many times before as to what the anomalies are.
Your job wouldn't seem to place restrictions on much of anything, except perhaps being unfunny too often...
Taking things too seriously place restrictions on what gets deemed funny...
- Oni
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

Petition to Bailout Comedy The Laugh Factory is imploring Congress to immediately fund what owner Jamie Masada calls an "Economic Cheer-Up." If Congress fails to act quickly, the Laugh Factory comedians are planning to march to Washington and plea to President Obama.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Perdition, posted 06-17-2009 6:03 PM Perdition has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2972 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 17 of 29 (512478)
06-18-2009 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by howdoideletethis
06-17-2009 9:35 PM


How about this, someone else use their imagination and think of the most ideal way something might evolve in the vacuum of space. (And no, being on a meteor doesn't count)
There is a huge problem with this, any "ideal" way would have already taken place given the billions of years that the universe has had.
Our imagination is limited by our knowledge, as well as the possiblity of what we imagine being possible, is also limited by our knowledge. It seems like, given billions of years to acheive "life", the only possible way is on a stable enough, and large enough, object in space with sufficient gravity.
I can "imagine" a microscopic quantum universe where life exists and the energy beings communicate through quantum fields. - I can imagine this. But, because I have a limited understanding of quantum mechanics, I have no idea what is even possible at a quantum level. (even though I'm sure that my imagined scenario is complete nonsense). My point however is that it doesn't matter much what I can "imagine", if it violates the laws of physics, or is contradicted by known facts, I'll just be imagining nonsense. The point is to know and be educated on the facts and laws before our imagination runs wild.
Either way, how wild would it be, not knowing how anything forms, to imagine that a force like gravity can create a star, that, with it's gravitational force, creates planets, that through the process of chemical reactions simple organic life emerges on 1 of those planets, and after billions of years 1 out of a billion or so species developed a highly complex consciousness! I believe that is pretty fuck'n incredible on it's own to imagine.
- Oni
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

Petition to Bailout Comedy The Laugh Factory is imploring Congress to immediately fund what owner Jamie Masada calls an "Economic Cheer-Up." If Congress fails to act quickly, the Laugh Factory comedians are planning to march to Washington and plea to President Obama.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by howdoideletethis, posted 06-17-2009 9:35 PM howdoideletethis has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2972 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 22 of 29 (512518)
06-18-2009 5:24 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by howdoideletethis
06-18-2009 2:47 PM


Re: Bad Attitude Control
I get the feeling these forums are more for degradation than discussion.
Actually, this forum is a very educational forum, once you get into actual science.
But pardon me, single cells didn't know the English language then and probably weren't even aware they were the first and they probably didn't have much of a thought process.
This is what I meant by a "complex sensory system." They were probably aware of some things, but certainly not to the degree that humans, with such a highly complex sensory system, are.
- Oni
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

Petition to Bailout Comedy The Laugh Factory is imploring Congress to immediately fund what owner Jamie Masada calls an "Economic Cheer-Up." If Congress fails to act quickly, the Laugh Factory comedians are planning to march to Washington and plea to President Obama.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by howdoideletethis, posted 06-18-2009 2:47 PM howdoideletethis has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by howdoideletethis, posted 06-18-2009 5:34 PM onifre has not replied

  
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