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Author Topic:   Are Creationists shooting themselves in the foot?
Dr Adequate
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Posts: 16085
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 76 of 80 (512040)
06-13-2009 6:44 PM


Creationist foot-shot.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
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Nuggin
Member (Idle past 572 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 77 of 80 (512047)
06-13-2009 7:17 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by Peg
06-11-2009 9:51 PM


i assume you've taken into consideration the very real possibility that Moses wrote about the account of creation more then once.

I assume you've taken into consideration the very real possibility that Moses was a fictional character repurposed from earlier religions.

This would explain why Moses story is a direct rip off of Sargon. It would explain why the history doesn't mesh. It would also explain why Moses (the Jew) went up a mountain to get stone tables with the laws on them just the Egyptian Law gives Mises did.

Would also nicely explain why so much of the ten commandments is just a rewording of the Egyptian Book of the Dead.


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Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by greentwiga, posted 06-21-2009 1:45 PM Nuggin has responded

    
greentwiga
Member (Idle past 1506 days)
Posts: 213
From: Santa
Joined: 06-05-2009


Message 78 of 80 (512841)
06-21-2009 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Nuggin
06-13-2009 7:17 PM


Creationist foot shot/ Moses
I liked that site about the creationist foot shot. Well, sort of. The creationist responses were sad. The next response by nuggin doesn't attack the creationists but the Bible.
There are three possibilities, Moses was a rip off of earlier Myths, the other myths were a rip off of the Biblical stories, or that the Bible contains references to other beliefs in order to communicate in ways that the people understand and to tell people to not worship that way. I would not be surprised at all to see clear correlations to the book of the dead in the Torah. Much of the first five books is meant to turn people away from Egyptian worship. I can show you many more correlations, but that doesn't tell you why they were there. Lamark quoted much good science and then came to bad conclusions. That doesn't mean all science is wrong. Creationists quote the Bible but then come to some conclusions that I can't agree with. That doesn't necessarily mean that the Bible is wrong. to Conclude that Moses was fictional, you have to show that my other two possibilities are wrong (They ripped off the Bible, or the Bible used what people knew to teach theological truths in a way they could understand.) By the way, you would do much better to correlate Sargon to Nimrod. Moses fits much better into 1400s Egypt. Even to correlate the name Moses with names like Ahmoses, Thutmoses, etc.
Again, I can see the creationists shooting themselves in the foot without that making a statement about the Bible being right or wrong, just like Lamark and other scientists have been spectacularly wrong without discrediting science.
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 Message 77 by Nuggin, posted 06-13-2009 7:17 PM Nuggin has responded

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Nuggin
Member (Idle past 572 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 79 of 80 (512843)
06-21-2009 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by greentwiga
06-21-2009 1:45 PM


Re: Creationist foot shot/ Moses
to Conclude that Moses was fictional, you have to show that my other two possibilities are wrong (They ripped off the Bible, or the Bible used what people knew to teach theological truths in a way they could understand.)

Well, seeing as the myths I reference predate the Torah by a few hundred to a thousand years, unless ancient Jews had some sort of time travel machine, we can scratch #1 off the list. These cultures did not retroactively adjust their ancient beliefs to fit the Jewish mythology.

As for #2, I don't have a problem with that concept. It's ENTIRELY possible that the first people hearing about Moses knew full well that this was just a rename of an earlier law bringer from a religion they were already familiar with.

However, the point is that MODERN DAY people believe that this was a historical figure and that the Bible is a literal account of his behaviors.

That's simply not the case.

At BEST you could argue that there was a historical man (be it Moses, Jesus or Elvis) who later was attributed with magical powers in order to form a religion.

That still violate the Creationist core belief that everything in the Bible, even the mistakes, is 100% the word of God.

As soon as they make that statement, the game is over. The Bible simply isn't a historical account.

If you want to say "The teachings in the Bible are morally superior to X" then you've got room for discussion.


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Taz
Member (Idle past 1371 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 80 of 80 (512854)
06-21-2009 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Dr Adequate
06-13-2009 6:44 PM


Daniel Florien writes:

You are quote mining from these sources - or more to the point, you are scavenging through these sites and cherry picking articles, and removing context of a myriad of related material to each item you reference. That is what is called QUOTE MINING. This is deception. Deception is a lie. Lying is breaking one of the 10 commandments. This demonstrates not only willful ignorance and a clear lack of education from any one of these institutions, but a complete dismissal of the mountain of information to the contrary of what you present. This behavior is deplorable.


I've been saying this for years. It's quite sad and disturbing that most christians don't say anything about the lies that their fellow christians try to teach people. Condoning liars to be liars is little better than being liars themselves.
This message is a reply to:
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