Are Creationists shooting themselves in the foot?

You just shot yourself in the foot.IDists have tried for years to disassociate themselves with biblical creationism. They haven't done a very good job, but they have tried nonetheless. With that single sentence, you've not only associated ID with biblical creationism, but you've shown us that YOU are still trying to cling onto the unsupported beliefs that you were force fed when you were a child.

Don't get your hopes up that much. The entire basis of the book relies entirely on two kinds of ignorance: (A) ignorance of what is and (B) ignorance of what could be. Since this is off topic, let me just briefly tell you what I mean by that.(A) Irreducible complexity relies on ignorance of what is. Behe gave the example of a mouse trap being irreducibly complex because he couldn't imagine or fathom any part of it being removed and still being a mouse trap. As has been pointed out many times now ever since his book came out by the various people in the field, you could remove the board of the mouse trap and still have a viable mouse trap. All you need to do is put the remaining parts on the floor.(B) Irreducible complexity relies on ignorance of what could be. Again, with the mouse trap example. Behe, couldn't imagine or fathom any part of the mouse trap being removed and the remaining parts still have any usefulness to them. As demonstrated by many people ever since the book came out, you could remove the holding bar and have a perfectly good tie clip.To tie this back to the subject at hand, Behe's argument relies on ignorance, not scientific knowledge. As a matter of fact, the entire premise of ID relies entirely on ignorance of the biological systems. This is identical to god-of-the-gaps. If we don't understand something, well there must be an intelligent designer behind it. How is Jupiter's Big Red Spot maintaining itself for centuries? Well, there must have been an intelligent designer behind it.With that said, I'd like to add another example to your list.4. One either must throw away one's creativity and ability to reason or become a liar if one wishes to support the ignorance based concept of creationism and ID.

Actually, I think both are related to the theme of this thread. I pointed out that not only are the outlook of creationism affected, creationists' intellectual development are hindered by their own doing. That's why creationists are shooting themselves in the foot everytime they indoctrinate their kids. I don't know about you, but if I have children I'd want them to be the best that they possibly can, not hinder their intellectual development by filling their heads with superstitious doctrines written by people thousands of years ago.As far as the part about you, I just wanted to point out how you demonstrated perfectly how the intelligent movement has attracted the creationist crowd and therefore effectively shooting themselves in their collective foot. After all, didn't you say that ID openned your mind again to genesis? That's exactly what IDists claim they don't want.Regarding the irreducible complexity thing, you're refusing to see what my argument is about and instead insisting on focusing on the example. You're staring at the bush instead of examining the forest. Muahahahahahahaha!Again, let me point out what Behe's main argument boils down to. He couldn't think of how the bacterial flagellum could develope over time, so he called it irreducibly complex. Unfortunately for him, biologists have shown for years now how such mechanism could have developed over time and that they have also found simpler mechanisms (earlier versions of the flagellum) that serve other purposes beside propulsion. Like I said, ignorance of what is and ignorance of what could be.Instead of investigating further into the matter and performed honest to god experiments, Behe shot himself in the foot by coming up with the notion of irreducible complexity and stopped doing science. Not only that, IDists and creationists alike collectively shot themselves in their collective intellectual foot by refusing to do real scientific investigation right there and began proclaiming an all-powerful deity magically creating the flagellum as is.The reason I'm bringing this up is because my parents made me shot myself in the foot many times over when I was growing up. Goddunit was the explanation for everything. Can you imagine the kind of hinderance involved in my intellectual development? When I began to read about intelligent design, I saw almost the same arguments used by creationists. They effectively shot themselves in their collective foot by not doing science but instead try to impose their doctrine through the legal process.

My thought on the matter is as follows. You sounded like the psychic that told me to keep an open mind for her psychic ability to work.But lets suspend my connection there. What do you think about genesis in regard to what ID says?

Sounds an aweful lot like a work of fiction where the author(s) wrote something down quickly and then went back later on to fill in the details. An example of this is Sir Author C. Clarke's The City and the Stars.

I've been saying this for years. It's quite sad and disturbing that most christians don't say anything about the lies that their fellow christians try to teach people. Condoning liars to be liars is little better than being liars themselves.