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Author | Topic: Between A Rock & A Hard Place | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Peg Member (Idle past 4950 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined:
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Hi Phat,
Phat writes: I have no problems with Jesus or with God. I DO have problems with the Bible being inerrant (without any mistakes, errors, or human goofs) chiefly because it just doesn't make sense to me. The bible is written in such a way that you need Gods Spirit in order to understand it. Remember that even Jesus apostles did not understand it initially. Jesus told them that he would "send a helper to be with them always" This helper was the holy spirit that was poured out at Pentecost. When they received this helper then understanding of the things Jesus had taught them came to them and they began preaching. So ask for Gods help. Ask for holy spirit. 'Ask and you shall receive'
Phat writes: My critics tell me that my brand of Christianity is flawed because it implies that some people are special. Chosen. Set apart from the rest of humanity. They hint at the fact that this idea is actually a doctrine of humans who sought to control others through this belief. Christianity isnt about 'special people'Christianity is about 'YOUR' relationship with God. This is something that every single person on earth can have if they want it. It doesnt make us special if we have it, but it does put us in line for everlasting life. So i dont believe that Christianity is about controlling us. Its really about us controlling our own destiny. We are not forced to be christians. We can walk away at any time. God does not force anyone to follow him and he accepts everyone who does. No one is special, we are all special to God.
Phat writes: Additionally, I have been told by more than a few educated scientifically minded critical thinkers that the idea of a Young Earth, a Global Flood, and a literal Talking Snake are just too ridiculous to be embraced by any rational thinker. They hint at the idea that I should question the reasons behind believing in a perfect Bible when evidence clearly shows the Bible and the characters contained within are the fodder of a story and not of actual facts. Non believers tend to say that. But I agree that you should question religious beliefs. The best way to do this is to compare the religious belief with the bible. Find out what the original words actually meant when they were written, study study study and Pray for guidance. And if you find a difference between the two, trust the bible first and foremost because that is where Gods truths are to be found.
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Peg Member (Idle past 4950 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
Hyroglyphx writes: Strangely enough all cults claim the same esoteric promises; the select few with the illusion of having insider knowledge while the masses are lost. yes, that may be true...however its not limited to cults, its the basis of every religion when you think about it.
Hyroglyphx writes: That's just it though, Peg. He's been asking for a long time and he's received next to nothing. If you examine what he's writing and read between the lines, he's searching for validation for his beliefs. As he said himself, he doesn't know what to believe anymore. i'd be interested to know how he studies or what he studies, or who he studies with. Perhaps its time he searched our some other methods of learning...i dont know, im just saying that if its not working for him, perhaps the source material is lacking.
Hyroglyphx writes: What relationship? Seems terribly one-sided. God doesnt make a persons life perfect just because they have a relationship with him. And we shouldnt strive to have relationship with him because of what we can get out of it. (not that its wrong to want something out of it) But he does add meaning, purpose and hope to ones life now...and in the future the promise of more material long lasting & permanent blessings.
Hyroglyphx writes: Isn't that circular? And which parts, since some clearly contradict others? I know people say that, but i've never seen a contradiction that cannot be explained. i've actually found that contradictions occur when interpretations are misapplied. do you have any in mind?
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Peg Member (Idle past 4950 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
Phage0070 writes: So you suggest we shouldn't do what he says for what we can get out of it, but almost in the same breath mention the point of material blessings promised in the future. These concepts seem at odds. Besides, if God isn't going to give blessings now and he isn't going to give blessings later, what possible reason would there be to do what he says? If God was just giving out some helpful tips for living then what is the point of worship, praying, belief in general? look at it this way we can live our own life and do what we want and live how we want...we may live a short life and die young, or we may live to be 60, 70 or 80 years if we are lucky, but we are going to die. or God says :live how I want you to live, do what i want you to do and you and ill allow you to do it forever without the toil and pain you currently experience in this life. (Deut 30:19) If you compare the life we have today with the life that God promises in the bible, there is no comparison. Sure, we have to wait for it, and we may even die before it comes....but what does it matter if we are going to die anyway.? Gods purpose was to have humans living in a perfect paradisaical world where they were to be the caretakers of earth and the animals on it. Life was supposed to continue indefinitely for Adam and Eve but they chose death pain and suffering. Well I didnt choose that, it was imposed upon me and if there is a way out, then i want it. So while i'll have to wait, im willing to do that because it will be worth the wait.
Phage0070 writes: And you generally do so by concluding that it means something at odds with what it says. If you are going to ignore the scripture anyway, why read it in the first place? thats a very good point. the bible should be read with the purpose of understanding 'IT' not with the purpose of understanding the dogma that's being taught.For instance, we hear the word 'hell' thrown around a lot by the church. They tell us that its where you;'ll go to suffer if you sin. However, the word in the bible that is translated as 'hell' means no such place. The hebrew word simply means the common grave of mankind, the hole in the ground into which we are buried when we die.So why are they teaching that hell is place of fiery torment where souls are burned with fire forever??? its not what the bible says. The churchs have not remained true to what the bible says...they have twisted the scriptures to preach their own dogma.
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Peg Member (Idle past 4950 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
Phage0070 writes: So in other words you are doing it to avoid the curse God inflicted on Adam and Eve: "Do what I say or I'll kill you (eventually, after some torture)." You are doing it PRECISELY for what you can get out of it. (Oh, and you cannot avoid the torture even though you don't deserve it.) God inflicted nothing on A&E. They inflicted it on themselves by choosing to be independent. He told them the consequences, but they chose it anyway. He wasnt going to force them to be obedient, he gave them the choice. Why does that make him the baddy?
Phage0070 writes:
No Peg, I said "why read it in the first place?" If you are simply going to reject those parts you don't already agree with, then you cannot gain anything from the reading that you don't already believe and accept. Besides, if "IT" is so anxious for you to learn about it then why does it not talk to you directly? That would seem to eliminate the need for a Bible in the first place, it is hard to get more convenient than on-demand telepathy. The fact that the sects cannot seem to agree puts the entire concept in a poor light from the start! now you're just being silly.
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Peg Member (Idle past 4950 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
Phage0070 writes: The serpent never lied, the tree did not kill them it did exactly what the serpent said it would. It was God who lied. Once they gained knowledge from the tree they were capable of eating from the tree of life and becoming immortal like God, and specifically to prevent this God sent them out of the garden. According to Jesus, the serpent lied. he called Satan "a liar and the the father of the Lie" And A&E did die, we know that for a certainty.
Phage0070 writes: God never intended humans to live forever, and he lied to prevent humans from finding out the secret and once they did he sent his lackeys with flaming swords to prevent it. God hates you and wants you to die; what is so hard to understand about that? LOL he could have just done away with A&E and Satan so he had no opposers, and no one to question him or accuse him of something that is obviously false.
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Peg Member (Idle past 4950 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
ICANT writes: Verse 15 tells you who will be in the lake of fire. so what does it mean that 'death' and 'hell' is cast into the lake of fire?
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