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Author Topic:   Pick and Choose Fundamentalism
anglagard
Member
Posts: 2185
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 166 of 384 (514481)
07-08-2009 3:54 AM
Reply to: Message 137 by Peg
07-04-2009 8:41 AM


Re: Absurd Response
anglagard writes:

The Mosaic Law Code is not the issue. The issue is why do those who find a book infallible still manage to pick and choose what parts to follow and what parts to ignore.

Your diversionary and simplistic comment fools few, if any, around here.

you asked a silly question.

you were comparing apples with oranges. I assume you've read genesis, Leviticus and Deuteronomy so surely you could see the difference in these books...why ask a silly question?

The OP is specific. Why are some statements followed as if direct from the deity and other inconvenient statements simply ignored.

Your probably deliberate misdirection and likely pretend misunderstanding is noted, just as your inability to admit it when wrong.


Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon

The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza


This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by Peg, posted 07-04-2009 8:41 AM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by Peg, posted 07-13-2009 11:01 PM anglagard has not yet responded

    
ochaye
Member (Idle past 3348 days)
Posts: 307
Joined: 03-08-2009


Message 167 of 384 (514483)
07-08-2009 5:08 AM
Reply to: Message 165 by fiji1
07-07-2009 9:07 PM


Some things don't change
'Why are sins such as murder, theft, adultery and homosexuality so much more egregious in the eyes of certain Christians than, say, working on the sabbath, back-talking to your parents or eating unclean foods?'

There is no sabbath period now, no week, for religious reasons- any more than there are unclean foods. Serious disrespect for parents is destructive of society, and is no less dangerous than anything else.

Edited by ochaye, : No reason given.

Edited by ochaye, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by fiji1, posted 07-07-2009 9:07 PM fiji1 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by Perdition, posted 07-08-2009 12:19 PM ochaye has not yet responded

    
Perdition
Member (Idle past 1346 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 168 of 384 (514503)
07-08-2009 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by ochaye
07-08-2009 5:08 AM


Re: Some things don't change
There is no sabbath period now, no week, for religious reasons- any more than there are unclean foods.

Where do you get this from? It's certainly not in the Bible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by ochaye, posted 07-08-2009 5:08 AM ochaye has not yet responded

    
Hill Billy
Member (Idle past 3463 days)
Posts: 163
From: The hills
Joined: 01-26-2008


Message 169 of 384 (514773)
07-12-2009 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by anglagard
10-24-2007 3:09 AM


on topic....for once
anglagard writes:

What is the rationale for worshiping each word in Genesis and ignoring what one does not like in Leviticus or Deuteronomy?


None that I can think of.
Personally I don't worship the bible. I save my worship for GOD.
I don't ignore any part of the bible though some of it makes for difficult reading.
I readily admit that much of this book escapes my understanding but from my reading I have found a great deal of what I consider to be truth. Enough that I have placed my trust in GOD.
Some may think my trust is misplaced but it's my trust and I will put it wherever I please.
That being said I'm still left making my own choices and living with the consequences.
I seem to find the consequences much easier to live with when I try to include GOD in my choosing yet I still sometimes find myself making choices without GOD.
One of the messages I get from the bible is that each and every human is going to make at least some real bad choices.
Believing the bible is true does NOT make you immune from making bad decisions.
But you already know that.


The years tell what the days never knew.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by anglagard, posted 10-24-2007 3:09 AM anglagard has not yet responded

  
Hill Billy
Member (Idle past 3463 days)
Posts: 163
From: The hills
Joined: 01-26-2008


Message 170 of 384 (514774)
07-12-2009 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Brian
07-07-2009 3:32 PM


Brian writes:

Why are you in such a hurry to get to Hell?


I get how you want to be the judge, that you wish to decide where I go.
I regret to inform you that the position has already been filled.
Sound familiar?


The years tell what the days never knew.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Brian, posted 07-07-2009 3:32 PM Brian has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by Brian, posted 07-12-2009 2:54 PM Hill Billy has responded

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 3068 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 171 of 384 (514776)
07-12-2009 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by Hill Billy
07-12-2009 2:28 PM


Boogey Man
Don't lose any sleep over it mate, it's just a wee fairytale.

If it wasn't for Augustine plagiarising Plotinus' neoplatonism, I don't know what the clergy would have threatened the uneducated with in their attempts to popularise the cult of Christianity. I am sure they would have found something though, liars without a conscience always do.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by Hill Billy, posted 07-12-2009 2:28 PM Hill Billy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by Hill Billy, posted 07-12-2009 3:16 PM Brian has responded

    
Hill Billy
Member (Idle past 3463 days)
Posts: 163
From: The hills
Joined: 01-26-2008


Message 172 of 384 (514777)
07-12-2009 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by Brian
07-07-2009 3:52 PM


Brian writes:

this religion of theirs has been an abomination on mankind.


Can you accurately define abomination?

Nothing else has plagued humanity as much as the follwers of this fairytale.

Seems a bit of a stretch to blame the followers. Perhaps the leaders?

Well, I don't think it is really fair to taint the human race by including Christians, but at a biological level I suppose they are.

Do I sense a little hostility here?

I think people only seek forgiveness if they have done something wrong,

I'm not sure I agree. I think most people do not seek forgiveness at all.
so we cannot put all humans into this category.

What?
Am I understanding you?
You believe there is a human who has never done anything wrong?
Really?
The ever elusive perfect human has been found?
Cool.


The years tell what the days never knew.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by Brian, posted 07-07-2009 3:52 PM Brian has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by Brian, posted 07-12-2009 3:15 PM Hill Billy has responded

  
Hill Billy
Member (Idle past 3463 days)
Posts: 163
From: The hills
Joined: 01-26-2008


Message 173 of 384 (514779)
07-12-2009 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by Phat
07-07-2009 1:23 PM


Re: Eternal Non-Living Matter Defined By Living Intelligence?
Phat

I admit that my belief is illogical.

I wonder why you so readily admit this. Do you truly have "no idea" whether or not GOD exists?
Are you certain that belief in GOD is illogical?
Is logic the only measure of reality?


The years tell what the days never knew.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by Phat, posted 07-07-2009 1:23 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 3068 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 174 of 384 (514780)
07-12-2009 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by Hill Billy
07-12-2009 2:55 PM


Can you accurately define abomination?

In context, as in Christianity's interaction with mankind, it is pretty much one of revulsion at Christianity's actions.

Seems a bit of a stretch to blame the followers. Perhaps the leaders?

Nope, all Christians. Any Christian who promotes this fantasy as a reality, whether it be polluting their childrens' minds with this claptrap, or standing on a street corner preaching to all and sundry to change their ways or suffer for all eternity, they are all contributing towards maintaining this ludicrous belief.

I could see the point if there was at least something in Christianity that wasn't stupid but I really don't see it. The entire theology of it is flawed right from the erroneous 'Fall' of man, right down to the failed 'messiah' Jesus whose followers basically lied and ripped the OT to pieces to try and make it fit Jesus when he clearly was no messiah.

Do I sense a little hostility here?

Bewilderment would be more accurate.

I'm not sure I agree. I think most people do not seek forgiveness at all.

It obviously depends on the individual, but I'd say any decent person who has wronged someone, whether intentionally or not, would apologise and/or try to make up fpr what they have done.

To ask someone to apologise for something an ancient ancestor did wrong is just silly.

You believe there is a human who has never done anything wrong?

You have misunderstood.

I didn't say that there is a human who has never done anything wrong, although it would be difficult to imagine what a newborn baby would need to ask forgiveness for.

What I meant is that there are people who, at this moment in time, have nothing to ask anyone's forgiveness for.

Take myself as an example, I genuinely has no reason to ask for anyone's forgiveness. That isn't to say that I haven't had to ask for forgiveness in the past, but at this moment in time I'm sorry to inform you that I don't. I am also pretty sure there's million and millions of people in this category too.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by Hill Billy, posted 07-12-2009 2:55 PM Hill Billy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by Hill Billy, posted 07-12-2009 7:54 PM Brian has responded

    
Hill Billy
Member (Idle past 3463 days)
Posts: 163
From: The hills
Joined: 01-26-2008


Message 175 of 384 (514781)
07-12-2009 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by Brian
07-12-2009 2:54 PM


Re: Boogey Man
Brian writes:

liars without a conscience always do.


And judged they will be.
But not by you.


The years tell what the days never knew.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Brian, posted 07-12-2009 2:54 PM Brian has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by Brian, posted 07-12-2009 3:22 PM Hill Billy has not yet responded

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 3068 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 176 of 384 (514782)
07-12-2009 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by Hill Billy
07-12-2009 3:16 PM


Re: Boogey Man
But not by you.

By whom then?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by Hill Billy, posted 07-12-2009 3:16 PM Hill Billy has not yet responded

    
Hill Billy
Member (Idle past 3463 days)
Posts: 163
From: The hills
Joined: 01-26-2008


Message 177 of 384 (514788)
07-12-2009 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by Brian
07-12-2009 3:15 PM


Brian,
At first I was puzzled,

Do I sense a little hostility here?

Bewilderment would be more accurate.

puzzled that someone who laid claim to so many definitive answers could also claim bewilderment.
The answer was obvious!
Please allow me to assist you in escaping this mental maze you find yourself trapped within.
Now that you have acknowledged you have a problem we can seek the solution.
The first step in escaping this maze is understanding that you are wrong. Your most basic premise is false.
You blame GOD for the actions of humans, you blame religion for the actions of humans, you blame the bible or Christianity for the actions of humans. If you are to assign blame, assign it to the response able parties.
Humans.

I'd say any decent person who has wronged someone, whether intentionally or not, would apologise and/or try to make up fpr what they have done.

Can't argue with this. I think I read somethin like that in the bible.
My observation : Based on this definition, decent people seem to have been pretty much mutated right outta the gene pool.

although it would be difficult to imagine what a newborn baby would need to ask forgiveness for.

Sure.
Is there not some sort of special dispensation for children is this bible? I'm sure you are more familiar than I.
If not I'm sure some one can provide chapter and verse

What I meant is that there are people who, at this moment in time, have nothing to ask anyone's forgiveness for.

You state this as if it has some basis in reality.
Ludicrous belief indeed.

I genuinely has no reason to ask for anyone's forgiveness.

I wonder if anyone in your life agrees.
This of course is why you want the judge job, lest someone else convict you, no?


The years tell what the days never knew.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by Brian, posted 07-12-2009 3:15 PM Brian has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by Brian, posted 07-13-2009 10:39 AM Hill Billy has responded

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 3068 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 178 of 384 (514848)
07-13-2009 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 177 by Hill Billy
07-12-2009 7:54 PM


puzzled that someone who laid claim to so many definitive answers could also claim bewilderment.

Its having these answers that has led to the bewilderment.

Now that you have acknowledged you have a problem we can seek the solution.

I dont recall saying I had problem.

You blame GOD for the actions of humans, you blame religion for the actions of humans, you blame the bible or Christianity for the actions of humans. If you are to assign blame, assign it to the response able parties.

How can I blame God when I dont believe in God?

Humans.

I blame humans too, because humans created God.

Can't argue with this. I think I read somethin like that in the bible.

Whereabouts?

My observation : Based on this definition, decent people seem to have been pretty much mutated right outta the gene pool.

Maybe in your vicinity but not here.

Sure. Is there not some sort of special dispensation for children is this bible? I'm sure you are more familiar than I.

No, theres no special dispensation for children, Yahweh doesnt discriminate when it comes to murder. In fact, in Exodus he even goes out of His way to manipulate events with the sole purpose of murdering innocent Egyptian children. Then, of course we have the ultimate in barbarism, the Flood that wiped out everything on Earth except for the people and animals in that wee boat.

You state this as if it has some basis in reality.
Ludicrous belief indeed.

Well, who is it that I have to ask forgiveness if? I think I should know.

I wonder if anyone in your life agrees.

So, you claim that I am wrong and then go on to say you dont know!

This of course is why you want the judge job, lest someone else convict you, no?

Well I am the judge of what I believe to be right or wrong, and I know for a fact that the majority of the Bible has been shown to be false, I also know that Jesus was no messiah.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by Hill Billy, posted 07-12-2009 7:54 PM Hill Billy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by Hill Billy, posted 07-15-2009 9:03 PM Brian has responded

    
Peg
Member (Idle past 3038 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 179 of 384 (514916)
07-13-2009 10:54 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by Brian
07-07-2009 5:31 AM


Re: Double standards?
Brian writes:

Any external evidence to support this?

BTW, who says that child sacrifice is wrong? You are judging ancient cultures by modern day western ideals. There are cultures that did practice child sacrifice, but that was their tradition, their history, who are you to say what is right and wrong?

Anyway, how can ritual sacrifice even begin to compare to Joshua 6:21?

They devoted the city to the LORD and destroyed with the sword every living thing in itmen and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.

I suppose it is okay when it is done under Yahweh's request?

there is such a thing as righteous warfare

the cannanites, whom the Isrealites were told to destroy, were these very people who practiced vile acts such as human sacrifice mentioned above.

So please dont compare the cannanites with the righteous judgment of God.

If our govnernments, run by corrupt people, have the right to act as judges over us, who is to say that God cannot have that right? Our authorities can decree capital punishment upon some criminals, why should the God of the universe not have that right?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by Brian, posted 07-07-2009 5:31 AM Brian has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by Taz, posted 07-14-2009 12:31 AM Peg has responded
 Message 183 by Brian, posted 07-14-2009 6:49 AM Peg has responded

    
Peg
Member (Idle past 3038 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 180 of 384 (514917)
07-13-2009 11:01 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by anglagard
07-08-2009 3:54 AM


Re: Absurd Response
anglagard writes:

The OP is specific. Why are some statements followed as if direct from the deity and other inconvenient statements simply ignored.

Your probably deliberate misdirection and likely pretend misunderstanding is noted, just as your inability to admit it when wrong.

You said in msg 127

anglagard writes:

What is the rationale for worshiping each word in Genesis and ignoring what one does not like in Leviticus or Deuteronomy?

the law code and the book of genesis are completely different things.

Im sure you know that.

It like me saying, why dont you follow the words of mary poppins the same way you follow the road rules.

absurd indeed.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by anglagard, posted 07-08-2009 3:54 AM anglagard has not yet responded

    
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