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Author Topic:   Modularity, A distinguishing property of life
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1426 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 286 of 291 (515154)
07-15-2009 10:24 PM
Reply to: Message 280 by Dr Jack
07-15-2009 12:09 PM


unanswered posts, back to the topic
Hi Mr Jack,
I don't agree with you either that life is modular, or that integration - as you mean it - is a feature of designed systems. In fact, it's very much the other way round. I made this point way back on page 1, in posts 11 & 12, before the whole thread got sidetracked.
Message 11
Message 12
I agree, and posted similar in Message 3
We can consider the city, where buildings are cells that can be removed and replaced, either with similar structures or with different structures. It is modular, and it is integrated by the communication systems, roads, water and sewer lines, etc.
Some cities are designed, some are natural developments over many generations. Both exhibit modularity and integration. Both exhibit redundant features.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
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onifre
Member (Idle past 2972 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 287 of 291 (515164)
07-16-2009 12:05 AM
Reply to: Message 284 by DevilsAdvocate
07-15-2009 9:11 PM


Re: Perception, reality, survival, modularity, etc.
Our vestibular system (sense of balance and spacial orientation).
Isn't this part of our auditory system? - I just mean our overall 5 sense, not components within the original 5. I thought he meant something other than the 5 fundamental senses.
If you'd like to take this to the thread Moose provided I'd be cool with that.
- Oni

If it's true that our species is alone in the universe, then I'd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little.
~George Carlin

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 289 by Peepul, posted 07-16-2009 10:25 AM onifre has replied

  
themasterdebator
Inactive Member


Message 288 of 291 (515171)
07-16-2009 2:27 AM
Reply to: Message 279 by Filameter
07-15-2009 12:01 PM


Re: Perception, reality, survival, modularity, etc.
As to the evolution of our senses as a factor in the survival of our species: our senses, e.g., of smell, vision and hearing are quite poor compared to many other animals. Do you think in the course of evolution we lost some of the capabilites of our senses, compared to other species relatively close to us in the evolutionary tree, which implies a common ancestor ? How would having poorer vision, hearing and smell improve our species' chances of survival ?
Also, humans are able to survive short-term in space and in ocean deeps, despite never having previously had to. How do you think those capabilities evolved without subjecting our ancestors to a relevant selection pressure ?
What is/was the evolutionary advantage which selected us, but no other primate, for loss of body hair ?
My point: I think it is a mistake to assume that our characteristics are all the result of selection for short-term survival advantages.
Humans are very poorly designed for under water survival. If you were to simply quickly go underwater(like just shoot down to 50 feet) you would very likely die. We can't survive simply going into deep water. Our bodies have numerous flaws. In order to get to deep water we have to equalize ourselves numerous times on the way down and we can only stay for a very limited time anyway. Plus, some people cant even do that. Its all about luck really. Our deep water survival skills are pretty poor.
On body hair, there is a separate thread on that I believe, but it is advantageous over long distances(a human could outrun almost any animal over a long distance.) and allot less hot.
On senses, we have a unique set of senses, not neccesarily poorer. Senses require energy and effort to focus on, large amounts of unneccesary sense information would NOT be evolutionarily beneficial. If you look at animals with more developed senses, they have considerably larger brain areas which control those functions. Furthermore, those senses are not really neccesary for humans niche. We have decent development for every sense, just nothing super exeptional, because it would not be needed for us.
Now, this all assumes we have an evolutionary standpoint. If an all powerful being was in charge, there is no real reason not to give us our current intellegence and super developed senses.
Edited by Admin, : Fix quote.

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Peepul
Member (Idle past 5039 days)
Posts: 206
Joined: 03-13-2009


Message 289 of 291 (515225)
07-16-2009 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 287 by onifre
07-16-2009 12:05 AM


Re: Perception, reality, survival, modularity, etc.
I thought he meant something other than the 5 fundamental senses
Proprioreception!
Edited by Peepul, : No reason given.
Edited by Peepul, : No reason given.

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Replies to this message:
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onifre
Member (Idle past 2972 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 290 of 291 (515251)
07-16-2009 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 289 by Peepul
07-16-2009 10:25 AM


Re: Perception, reality, survival, modularity, etc.
Proprioreception
This is for internal sensing, not external.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1426 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 291 of 291 (515470)
07-18-2009 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 240 by traderdrew
07-08-2009 11:23 AM


cyanobacteria question, clarification
Hi traderdrew,
... I interrupt the topic for a small quibble\clarification ...
... What caused the stromatolites?
Was is not cynobacteria?
It was an organism that produced waste product (stromatolites) similar to what we observe today from many species of cyanobacteria, however we have no fossil of the organism itself.
This is valid evidence for life - waste product from metabolism - however we have no idea how complex the organism was (did it have a cell membrane of double lipids? did it function with DNA?), all we can surmise is that it reproduced sufficiently to produce piles of waste product. We can surmise that it probably was similar to modern cyanobacteria, but that is a large room.
No need to reply - this is just an off-topic clarification.
... I now return you back to the topic, "Modularity, A distinguishing property of life" ...
Enjoy.

This message is a reply to:
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