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Author Topic:   Sin
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 32 of 185 (515106)
07-15-2009 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Blue Jay
07-13-2009 12:08 AM


Re: What is sin?
Hi jay,
Bluejay writes:
So, am I right? What is sin?
Sin is an offence.
Disobedience to God's command was the offence that separated all mankind from fellowship with God.
Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Man was designed to have eternal fellowship with God and anything that keeps man from that fellowship is sin.(an offence to God)
They don't have to be bad things, they can be good things like trying to be good enough on your own to get into heaven.
Man can only be restored to fellowship with God through the new birth of being born again, born into God's family.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Blue Jay, posted 07-13-2009 12:08 AM Blue Jay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Blue Jay, posted 07-17-2009 12:18 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 52 of 185 (515295)
07-17-2009 12:53 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Blue Jay
07-17-2009 12:18 AM


Re: What is sin?
Hi jay,
Bluejay writes:
So, in your opinion, sin is disobeying God's commandments.
I did not say anything about commandments.
God made man and placed him in a garden. God told the man not to eat the fruit of a certain tree, If he did he would die.
God did not command the man not to eat. He gave man a choice. Don't eat and live. Eat and die.
Just as man has a choice today.
Spend eternity in the lake of fire as he is already condemned. John 3:18.
Or
Accept the free full pardon offered by God to spend eternity with Him.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Blue Jay, posted 07-17-2009 12:18 AM Blue Jay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Blue Jay, posted 07-17-2009 9:25 AM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 88 of 185 (515552)
07-18-2009 9:47 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Blue Jay
07-18-2009 2:29 PM


Re: What is sin?
Hi jay,
Bluejay writes:
This one only works on that guy from the Princess Bride: the rest of us only have 4 pointing back at us.
When I point my finger at my congregation I remind them I have 3 pointing back at me. Did I miss something somewhere?
I just looked and counted. I have 1 finger pointing at the monitor three pointing at me and my thumb pointing at the floor.
BTW I was just as specific about sin as I could be.
Greek ἁμαρτάνω means:
1) to be without a share in
2) to miss the mark
3) to err, be mistaken
Hebrew חטאת means:
1) sin, sinful
2) sin, sin offering
Those definitions are not much help either.
Sorry,
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Blue Jay, posted 07-18-2009 2:29 PM Blue Jay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Blue Jay, posted 07-19-2009 5:16 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 98 by Blue Jay, posted 07-20-2009 3:39 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 102 of 185 (515744)
07-20-2009 10:01 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Blue Jay
07-20-2009 3:39 PM


Re: What is sin?
Hi jay,
Bluejay writes:
If God hadn't given us a law, would there still be sin?
I hadn't ever really pondered that question.
Ponder, Ponder, Ponder.
Yes.
He gave one man (the first man) an option of eating or not eating of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
By choosing to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil he gained the knowledge of good and evil.
From that time until the present mankind has this knowledge.
Therefore he can choose good or evil.
All that the laws was given for was to bring mankind to the knowledge of his/her status before God.
Gal. 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
All mankind was separated from God by the first man eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
All are under the penalty of sin.
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
The penalty of sin is death.
No person alive today will be in the lake of fire because of any sin he has or will commit in his/her lifetime.
The only reason they will be there is because they have not been born again as Jesus told Nicodemus "ye must be born again". John 3:7.
The gift of God is eternal life.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Blue Jay, posted 07-20-2009 3:39 PM Blue Jay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by Blue Jay, posted 07-21-2009 2:37 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 111 of 185 (515877)
07-22-2009 1:58 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by Blue Jay
07-21-2009 2:37 PM


Re: What is sin?
Hi jay,
Bluejay writes:
To paraphrase you (correctly, I hope), you do not see sin as a definition that God made up, but as an inevitable part of our free-willed existence.
God wanted to have a creature who had the choice of loving Him and serving Him just because He is God.
The angels do what they were created to do. Even Satan.
The universe does what it was created to do.
The plants and the animals do what they were created to do.
The only creature that has a choice is mankind.
So the only way God could accomplish His purpose was to create evil, He did that by creating Satan so man could have a choice.
When God formed man from the dust of the ground He gave him the ability to choose. Just as God can make decisions and choose so can mankind.
He then created man and placed him in a perfect environment. Man was perfect in every way.
But God still wanted him to choose to love Him and serve Him and Fellowship with Him.
So He had placed a fruit bearing tree in the midst of the garden. You ask what kind of tree was it? It doesn't really matter, it could have been any kind.
God gave the man a choice. He could choose to continue as they were fellowshiping together or he could choose to eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and die.
The woman that God made from one of the man's ribs was deceived by a talking snake as it is portrayed here at EvC. I grew up with Francis the talking mule and Mr. Ed so I never had a problem with a talking snake.
Satan talked to the woman through the snake or serpent and convinced her she would become like God knowing good and evil if she ate the fruit so she did.
She then took to the man and gave it to him and he made a decision to eat the fruit and die with the woman as she was going to die and he did not want to live alone.
Because this man chose to eat the fruit he was separated from God and brought upon everything the death penalty.
Every person that has ever been conceived is under the same penalty. They are separated from God when they reach the point the man did when he ate the fruit knowing good from evil.
Bluejay writes:
However, you do not agree with me that sin leads deterministically to damnation.
Your good deed or you bad deeds have nothing to do with whether you spend eternity in the lake of fire or not.
John 3:18 makes it very plain.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
He that believes is not condemned. Not because he has been good.
He that does not believe is condemned already.
So unless a person has been born again he is already condemned to spend eternity in the lake of fire.
Why? Because he has not believed. Not because he has been bad.
God so loved mankind that He came down to earth and took on the form of a man we call Jesus and was crucified on a cross so man who was doomed could choose to accept that love and the offer of a free full pardon and be restored to the fellowship that the first man had with God in the garden.
=BluejayThis confuses me bit. How does sin play in to your belief system? Is it simply an indication of your "spiritual purity" (or whatever you call it), such that, if someone sins, then you know that they were not truly "born again"?
If you will do a study on all the laws in the Bible you will find they have to do with two things.
Mankind's relationship to mankind.
Mankind's relationship to God.
When a person has been truly born again God expects them to grow. Just as we expect our children to grow. So He gave some rules to help us grow. Like:
Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
2Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
If a child of the King will do those things they will grow. Problems come when they don't do either.
I want to specifically address this statement. "your "spiritual purity""
The only thing pure about me is the Holy Spirit that has sealed my spirit until the day of redemption.
I am still a sinner and will be until I receive a new body that was promised.
I do not deserve the love that God has for me and when I get to heaven I won't deserve to be there. I will only be there because I believed God loved me and died on the cross in my place and one day I turned my future over to God and it is not in my hands.
Now just what part does sin play in my belief system?
When a person is born he/she is a sinner. After they are born again they are still a sinner. But if we grow we will become less of a sinner if we work at it. When we die we will still be a sinner.
When we get our new body we will sin no more, but not until then.
So can we tell if a person is really born again by whether they sin or not? No. We can inspect the fruit and make a judgment but it only has a 50% change of being correct.
I know about one person in the world and that is all. I know what I did and I know I received the Holy Spirit. I would like to know my wife of 52 years was born again so we could spend eternity together but I don't. Inspecting the fruit I would say yes but God judges by what mankind does when he meets Him.
Saul on the road to Damascus met God and his reaction was to say, Lord what would you have me to do? He then spent the rest of his life doing it.
God Bless,
Edited by ICANT, : No reason given.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Blue Jay, posted 07-21-2009 2:37 PM Blue Jay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Blue Jay, posted 07-22-2009 7:29 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 114 of 185 (515947)
07-22-2009 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Blue Jay
07-22-2009 7:29 AM


Re: Calling for Christians to Respond
Hi jay,
Bluejay writes:
Basically, it sounds like you do not believe sin to be an arbitrarily-defined concept, but something that is a real, natural part of reality.
I believe sinning is the natural state of mankind as they are totaly depraved in their natural state.
Mankind sin because they are a sinner by nature. Just as a duck swims because it is a swimmer by nature.
A dog barks because that is its nature.
A pig loves a mud puddle because that is his nature.
Mankind has to choose to do good.
Bluejay writes:
We disagree on the nature of the afterlife, but we agree that sin has real consequences that are not determined by an arbitrary decree from God.
Actually we disagree on how to get there from here.
If I understand what you are putting forth it boils down to be a system of getting better and better until you are fit to live with God.
I put forth that the only way to get from here to there is by God's grace + nothing.
I think Paul put it best when he wrote:
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
It is a gift. You can't earn a gift. You may do things because you received the gift,
All you can do with a gift is accept it or reject it.
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
You can't get the gift by works. For then it would be wages and you could brag what you have done.
Sin (bad things) does have real consequences.
One example: A man stops by the bar on the way home from work and has one too many drinks. He proceeds to get in his vehicle and head home, In the process he loses control of his vehicle. It slams into another vehicle and all together 4 vehicles are involved. He is killed leaving his family fatherless, one other father and a mother and two children are killed.
The father that was killed had three children at home who are now fatherless. The mother had two children at home who are now motherless. The two children will never have any descendents.
All because one man chose to drink and drive which is against government mandated laws.
Yes sin has real consequences.
Which we will probably disagree on what those consequences will be.
The consequences of personal sin will not be involved in determining where mankind spends eternity.
It will determine how many rewards a born again sinner gets in the afterlife.
Paul covered that also:
1 Corinthans 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Saved by God's Grace not man's works.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Blue Jay, posted 07-22-2009 7:29 AM Blue Jay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by Phage0070, posted 07-23-2009 6:59 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 119 by Blue Jay, posted 07-23-2009 7:37 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 122 of 185 (516168)
07-23-2009 6:29 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by Phage0070
07-23-2009 6:59 AM


Re: Sin
Hi Phage0070,
Phage0070 writes:
So then would you ignore "sins" that do not have real consequences? For instance: Suppose I act as equally moral as another Christian (perhaps even more so than some) and yet daily I think "Damn you God, damn you to hell!" and mean it.
What "real consequences" does this have? Who is harmed by it, or what negative physical repercussions can we expect to measure?
So are you saying that is a sin?
If so what do you base your conclusion on?
Since you don't believe in God what is the problem?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Phage0070, posted 07-23-2009 6:59 AM Phage0070 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by Phage0070, posted 07-23-2009 6:47 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 123 of 185 (516171)
07-23-2009 6:40 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by Blue Jay
07-23-2009 7:37 AM


Re: Calling for Christians to Respond
Hi jay,
Bluejay writes:
Mormons believe that all but the most horrific people will get to go to heaven. But, "good behavior" grants you perks and blessings beyond the mere baseline gift of going to heaven.
Why won't the most horrfic people get to go to heaven?
What did the ones that get to go do that the HP people did not do?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Blue Jay, posted 07-23-2009 7:37 AM Blue Jay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by Blue Jay, posted 07-24-2009 7:42 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 125 of 185 (516174)
07-23-2009 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by Phage0070
07-23-2009 6:47 PM


Re: Sin
Hi Phage0070,
Phage0070 writes:
"But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin.
Mark 3:29, NIV"
I appears that you consider the Bible to be important and your god to be real, so it would follow that you consider this to be a sin. As I don't believe in God, I don't believe that "sin" exists.
Lets see you don't believe in God, or that sin exists.
Does your belief make it a fact that they don't exist?
I'll let you in on a little secret you are not a Bible scholar either.
Cursing God is not the event refered to in Mark 3:29, and carries no more penalty than a little white lie would.
But if there is a God you don't want to die charged with the one in Mark 3:29. BTW that is when you commit blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Although it is possible to do earlier in your lifetime.
You do know I believe in a God so I will warn you about that one, but you go ahead and do whatever your little mind decides to do.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Phage0070, posted 07-23-2009 6:47 PM Phage0070 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by Rahvin, posted 07-23-2009 7:53 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 127 by Phage0070, posted 07-23-2009 8:24 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 128 of 185 (516190)
07-23-2009 10:47 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by Phage0070
07-23-2009 8:24 PM


Re: Sin
Hi Phage0070,
Phage0070 writes:
Ok, fine. Modify the statement to "Damn the Holy Spirit, damn it to Hell!" What real-world impact does that have if it is a sin? Don't try to wriggle out of this question.
Sorry to disapoint you but you didn't get it right yet.There is only one unpardonable sin and you keep on living your life like you have so far.
Keep telling yourself there is no God, no sin, no heaven and no lake of fire.
And by the time your physical body expires you will have gotten it right.
I believe in God so I don't mind talking about Him. But I have been told more that one time I was wasting time.
Why do atheist like yourself spend so much of your life argueing about something you do not believe exists. Just bogles my mind.
Phage0700 writes:
Then you also know I don't care what your crazy little sect believes is or isn't God, or what will happen if I think ill of it.
I will remind you of this statement at some point in your future.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Phage0070, posted 07-23-2009 8:24 PM Phage0070 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by Phage0070, posted 07-24-2009 7:09 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 132 by Blue Jay, posted 07-24-2009 7:52 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 133 of 185 (516366)
07-24-2009 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by Blue Jay
07-24-2009 7:52 AM


Re: Sin
Hi jay,
Bluejay writes:
I'm not an atheist, as you know.
The message you are replying to was not addressed to you. But I get your reasoning for wanting to answer it.
Bluejay writes:
You have spent a very large amount of time on this forum arguing against Big Bang cosmology, which you do not believe in.
God is not taught in our schools and colleges as a fact. BBT is.
But what makes you think I don't believe in Big Bang Cosmology?
Maybe because I say I believe the universe has always existed in some form.
That does not mean in the shape we see it today.
Can you imagine what would take place if you had a big ball of energy and decided to create a universe out of it. All the things that would have to move and take place if spoken into existence in a nano second. All that energy would have to become other things, talk about inflation.
I just don't believe the story that is being taught and I think I have proved that point. I have asked many questions that have been unanswered and will remain unanswered.
Bluejay writes:
Creationists spend their entire professional careers arguing against evolution, which they don't believe happens.
Most of them don't believe God did it either. If they did they would be serving Him rather than serving self.
Bluejay writes:
Christian preachers spend their entire professional careers arguing against false doctrines.
Ah but false doctrine exists.
But only a few is still putting up a fight.
Bluejay writes:
The prophets from the scriptures spent their lives arguing against Dagon, Marduk, Baal and a lot of other gods that they did not believe existed.
Elijah probally wasted more time than any one else did. He spent a whole day making fun of a bunch of Baal's prophets and then the Children of Israel killed them when Baal would not accept their offering. But God accepted Elijah's.
Bluejay writes:
Disbelief in something is a very common and legitimate reason to argue about it.
What else do you expect somebody to do but argue for what they perceive as truth?
And, how can they do that without arguing against what they perceive as falsehood?
Well said and I understand that.
But looking at my statement to Phage0700 I still can't understand why someone who does not believe God exists would waste time arguing that He don't exist.
If He doesn't exist at 70 years old I have a very short time left on earth. If that is all the time I have to exist then I would not waste one minute of it on anything. I would enjoy what time I have left.
You see I believe God exists and I am going to spend eternity with Him so I got plenty of time left.
So yes it boggles my mind.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Blue Jay, posted 07-24-2009 7:52 AM Blue Jay has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 134 of 185 (516370)
07-24-2009 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by Blue Jay
07-24-2009 7:42 AM


Re: Calling for Christians to Respond
Hi jay,
Didn't see this one.
Bluejay writes:
If you think everyone should o to heaven, why don't you teach that from the pulpit?
I teach that everyone should go to heaven.
I teach that everyone could go to heaven.
Does that mean everyone is going to heaven. Sorry to say the answer is no.
God in the form of a man called Jesus died on the cross so everyone could go to heaven.
All anyone has to do is accept God's offer of a free full pardon.
I teach man gets to heaven because of God's unmerited favor. All mankind has to do is believe He will do what He says He will do.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by Blue Jay, posted 07-24-2009 7:42 AM Blue Jay has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 135 of 185 (516374)
07-24-2009 6:20 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by Phage0070
07-24-2009 7:09 AM


Re: Sin
Hi Phage0700,
Phage0700 writes:
It is a combination of a desire to help others, and a desire to correct wrongs in the world. So much waste and hardship is present in the world caused by religion, it is amazing.
I agree.
Phage0700 writes:
by belief in imaginary things,
I agree, like Santa Clause. Do you know many people are still paying for the junk that has already made it to the dump.
Phage0700 writes:
I argue because I truly believe you and your kind are holding back the development of humanity through willful ignorance.
Since you know very little about me you are making a broad statement.
You only have an imaginary knowledge of what I believe and teach, and do. It is all in your imagination. If you care to know please send me an e-mail and we will talk about it but not here.
Phage0700 writes:
Then point it out why don't you? I'm not going to play "20 Questions" to find out what every crackpot decides to imagine today.
I have to you. It is found in John 3:18.
3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Phage0700 writes:
Well that is rather vague.
I meant it to be.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Phage0070, posted 07-24-2009 7:09 AM Phage0070 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by Phage0070, posted 07-24-2009 6:53 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 140 of 185 (516406)
07-24-2009 7:55 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by Rahvin
07-24-2009 7:13 PM


Re: Sin
Hi Rahvin,
Rahvin writes:
The "unforgivable sin" of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit seems to be, in ICANT's view, ending your life denying God's existence and rejecting his offer of a full free pardon. Basically, allsins are pardonable and forgivable so long as you accept the gift of forgiveness.
That about right, ICANT?
I couldn't have said it better thanks Rahvin.
It is the job of the Holy Spirit to convict mankind of their spiritual condition. He does try to convict everyone at some point in their life.
So if you keep saying no to Him you will eventually die under the penalty placed on all mankind when the first man disobey God and eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by Rahvin, posted 07-24-2009 7:13 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 141 of 185 (516416)
07-24-2009 8:40 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by Rahvin
07-24-2009 7:29 PM


Re: Sin
Hi Rahvin,
Rahvin writes:
Oh, and ICANT - sorry about the sig, but I couldn't resist.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You were doing OK until you started to think."
-ICANT
Sorry I can't take credit for the saying. Catholic Scientist said that to me about a year and a half ago.
Rahvin writes:
Semantics. ICANT believes his lake of fire to be real, ergo it is a "real consequence" to him. Granting for the sake of argument that ICANT's beliefs accurately reflect reality, sin does have consequences.
Actually you don't have to do anything to end up in the lake of fire.
The verse of scripture I quoted to Phage0700 John 3:18 said mankind is condemned already. So it doesn't make any difference what I believe about it.
It is a sin to drink and drive. God has nothing to do with that being a sin. It is law enforced by our justice system.
If a man comits that sin and ends up killing himself and someone else there are dire consequences to that sin.
I know a 6 year old young lady who was in her grandparents back seat stoped at a traffic light with about 20 cars between them and the light. A young woman of 40 had a rough day at the office and stopped by the bar for a couple of drinks. She then proceeded home and she never slowed down when she cam up behind Joe's car. She hit it doing in excess of 60 mph. The then 3 year old had to be taken to the hospital in air ambulance. Over 2 million dollars have been spent trying to correct all the problems she has but part of her brain is missing. So millions more will be spent in her lifetime to take care of her. So don't tell me sin does not have real consequences. I am sure you know of many stories just like this one.
BTW Her blood alcohol level was twice what the state of Florida allows 8 hours after the accident as it took that long to get a Judges order to draw the blood.
Then again on further review maybe God did have something to do with that law because through Solomon He said:
Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.
Somebody might have read that and incorporated into our laws.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Rahvin, posted 07-24-2009 7:29 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
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