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Author Topic:   Evolutionary Theory Explains Diversity
interrelation
Member (Idle past 5389 days)
Posts: 31
From: Japan
Joined: 07-20-2009


Message 67 of 160 (515977)
07-22-2009 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Granny Magda
07-22-2009 10:46 AM


Re: Did Not
Then why did you say;
interrelation writes:
Yeah, I've alreday proved it in my theory.
Because in my theory, I have facts and experiments.
If I don't have, I will never say so.
As you well know, I have not ignored your "evidence", I have addressed it in my previous
post. It is seriously flawed and does not demonstrate what you seem to think it does.
Anybody could say that...and I don't care about it.
I could say that too to TOE. But it is a waste of time.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since in TOE, life has no important at all, then, TOE doesn't care about this topic.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This comment is moronic. Suggesting that life is not important to the ToE only serves to
further reveal your deep ignorance of biology (NB "biology" = the science of life).
You don't really understand your position. You are very confused person.
I don't question biology. I question TOE in biology for I believe that in biology
life must be the first priority, that is why, the FIRST and MAIN mechanism in the
preservation of life for Interrelation Theory is biotic preservation mechanism.
TOE lacks this importance of life. I forgive you for this.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, you will surely ignore the mechanism of biotic preservation mechanism (BPM),
I don't care. But even so, the fact that we see it in nature and it is natural
and testable is there. And this fact will never change whether you like it or not.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A theory is not a fact. You have blindly imposed your pet explanation on the facts. Here;
FACT; Plants grow towards light.
THEORY; This is because of the "biotic preservation mechanism".
Plants will always grow towards light, that is true, but your pet "theory" is subject
to alternative explanations. To say that it "will never change" is to place it outside
of science.
Science is always subject to possible change. Only crackpots insist that they are
infallible.
Yes, fact will never change in nature. It is only the point of observation of reference
that will change. If you will use the incomplete TOE in biology, then, fine.
I don't care.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And this is the reason why I am surprised to see that TOE had a very limited mechanisms
to explain the complexities of life.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The ToE has clearly defined and observable mechanisms for producing diversity,
unlike your waffling and hand-waving.
Yes it is true if and only if TOE will use a very limited or incomplete mechanisms.
You don't really understand. Since TOE had deliberately neglected or
undiscovered or ignored time mechanism (and other mechanisms) in nature, you will simply
arrive in the same conclusion with TOE. Incorrect conclusion by using
incomplete mechanisms, that result in incorrect theory.
Explanation in nature must be "cube", but since TOE had been neglecting and
deliberateley ignoring time mechanisms and etc as describe in Interrelation Theory that are
observable in nature, then, the picture that TOE is presenting is "square".
Now square is totally different from cube! Did you get me?
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, I can do satirical post too to TOE. But being a professional...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whoa there! You are a professional!? A professional what exactly? What are your academic
qualifications? At which institution do you work? What professional bodies are you a
member of?
The answer, I suspect, is that you are not a professional scientist, merely a deluded
egotist and crackpot, with no relevant professional status.
For the record, I myself am merely a layperson, an amateur with an interest in science.
I see no need to claim prestige that I do not deserve. I prefer to let my arguments
speak for themselves.
You don't understand real life. Maybe you need to study more about people in science.
You can say anything you want to say. That is your opinion but as long as you can't
refute my claim in biology of my theory, I will still hold that title.
So if you come here to make satirical or emotional comment, leave them at home.
Let us talk science here. Many people are dying everyday and they need to know
that their life are important. And we need to know exactly the origin of organisms
and humans. We need to clear this.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've been seeing and witnessing
biotic preservaton mechanism since I was a child
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No. You have, at best, been seeing events which are compatible with the "BPM" explanation.
Unless you are telling us that "BPM" is in some way visible, perhaps under a microscope,
then you have not seen it. You have only seen events which may have been caused by it.
This is a very important point and the fact that you don't seem to understand this
simple distinction speaks your ignorance of the scientific method and gives the
lie to your claims to be a "professional".
You don't know how science works?
I have already put up my claims. Supposed to be I will be printing it in books,
but I decide to put it in website so that many people could see it.
They are openly written in the website.
And this web site is still changing since many logical ideas are coming everyday.
If you don't like it since it directly attack TOE, then, you can put your own web
site and refute it. If somebody could claim to refute that I will surely delete it.
But until now, none. Maybe you can.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Assuming that the rat in your experiment did not eat the cheese,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You misunderstand. I mentioned the cheese, because rats should not be fed cheese.
Read any book on pet care for rats and you will be able to confirm this.
I only mention this to try and bring home to you just how litlle you seem to know
about animals and to try and protect any rodents unfortunate enough to find
themselves in your "care".
DON'T FEED RATS ON NOTHING BUT CHEESE. RATS NEED A BALANCED DIET
Seriously, you are trying to rewrite the whole science of biology and you don't even
have the same level of expertise as a six-year-old looking after a pet rat. Pathetic.
Maybe you need to read this first before you judge.
What Do Rats Eat?
My observation tells me that rats can almost eat anything. Well, it depends on the people
about their rats.
I did not say a pet rat for testing. Look at my original post.
I said a "house rat" that means a "pest" to a certain house.
Well, if the scientist had his own rat, then, fine. He can use it.
The goal is not the rat but the theory that claim that it debunked TOE.
Read first before you post, it is already written there.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I did that experiments too to frogs, fishes, dogs, cats, chickens, crabs...
many animals to find out the same result.
That is the reason why I knew that Darwin and TOE proponents are wrong in their mechanism.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh dear.
So, we now know that not only are you an ignorant and egotistical crackpot, but you
are a cruel animal-abuser as well. Let me assure you, if you were in my country,
I would already have alerted the authorities to your activities, which would be
considered illegal as well as immoral.
LEAVE THE ANIMAL EXPERIMENTS TO REAL SCIENTISTS. QUIT HITTING ANIMALS WITH STICKS.
Worse is that you seem to think that just because animals run away when you hit
them with a stick you have toppled the ToE. Moronic.
Your country is just following the laws that I've stated in the biotic preservation
mechanism of my theory. My country too is following it.
You can read the detail in my BPM mechanism if you would
like to see my view.
You should not be surprised since you are accepting the
validity of TOE, then, you must be the one, by definition, who are doing animal-abuse,
human rights violations, immoral acts, inhuman treatment and the likes.
Since by definiton, TOE had no purpose whatsoever in life. Since the existence
of every living organisms in TOE is being done
by unconscious natural selection mechanisn, then, life must have no meaning at all in TOE.
Do you want more about this? The implications of real TOE in nature and society?
You will never like it. I wish you shold not open it, for your sakes.
Yes, I did try it. I don't hit them with sticks. Those frogs, fishes, dogs,
cats, chickens, crabs and other were used as foods. Some parts in my country (before)
ate dogs and mountain cats. I tried once eating both.
They are not animal abuses since we consumed them for foods.
Maybe you need to read my background first. But all of these animals they had life too,
and the moment you took their life or before you took their life
for your foods, you will know the same result. And the most aching part of it is when you
saw some of animals cried (have literally tears in their eyes) for asking life.
That is the reason why I don't believe in natural selection is happening in nature.
I cannot blame you, you are the one who are opposing animal abuses, me too, then,
you knew for sure that life, even in animal, is very important.
So, you are just putting weight on my theory. Thank you.
I forgave you for this.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOE knew it maybe but TOE did not know the mechanism that work on why
plants and animals attempt to stay alive!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pathetically wrong once again. Organisms evolve with instinctive behaviours which
encourage them to preserve their lives because;
a) those behaviours are encoded in their genomes,
b) an organism which doe snot seek to preserve its own life would not survive long
enough to pass on its defective genes (natural selection).
Seriously, this is easy, entry-level stuff. Any school child should be able to
understand this. That you do not is shocking.
Yes, TOE will surely say evolution since TOE had forgotten the time mechanism.
Yes, the encoded genomes works in the biotic preservation mechanism.
Thank you for putting the details. I don't have time putting up details since
I will leave that to our other scientists who will work for that. But my job is to find
the right mechanism now and the right theory.
It is true that an organism which does not seek to preserve its own life would not
survive long enough to pass on its defective genes but it doesn not mean also
that this organism had already lost its desire to live longer or had lost its desire to
have a corrected genes. My experiment tells me the facts about it.
This is the big difference between the natural selection and
the biotic preservation mechanism.
You see, natural selection is false, inhuman, cruel, unnatural, unscientific
..It doesn't make any sense.
interrelation writes:
Good question. We know it by test and experiment. In this, I've proved that I'm right.
No. You are failing to understand once again.
FACT; Plants grow towards light.
THEORY; This is because of "BPM"
But how do you rule that explanation in and rule these out;
THEORY; This is because of genetic instructions in the plants genome.
THEORY; This is because of magnetism.
THEORY; This is because of magic pixies.
etc.
All of those explanations are just as compatible with the results of your experiment
as your "BPM" explanation.
You can propose any number of explanations for a phenomenon, what matters to
scientists (you know, real scientists, not just crackpots) is separating the good
explanations from the bad. This is done with evidence. You seem to be doing
it with nothing more than wishful thinking. That's bad. That's why you're wrong.
That's how I know you're lying when you insinuate that you are a scientist.
The rest of your post is repetitious waffle or indecipherable gibberish and
I have no desire to further waste my time with it. I will respond to this though;
Wishful thinking??? You made me laugh.
There are many explanations. I knew it. Some may neglect others some may include others.
Some are none.
But in my Interrelation Theory, I included almost everything that TOE had forgotten.
So if TOE is square, Interrelaton Theory is cube.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I understand TOE for if I don't, I will never have a nerve to fight TOE in head to head,
in natural explanation clashing with natural explanation battle in science.
Why should I waste my time depending a loser theory?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Simple. You are too ignorant and too arrogant to realise that you are wrong and
that you are seriously out of your depth.
You may think that I have been unnecessarily rude and abusive throughout this post.
Indeed, I have been less than polite, but understand this; I am not going to mollycoddle
you. Your ideas are ridiculous and you are deeply ignorant of the science you are
seeking to overturn. To pretend otherwise or to act as though your output is
deserving of anything more than scorn and ridicule would be to do you a disservice.
You are deluding yourself if you think that you have anything useful to say and you
need to snap out of it and stop wasting your life with this rubbish. Your "theory"
is at best a waste of your time, at worst a symptom of mental illness.
Grow up. You are not "the discoverer of this new theory"; that is self-aggrandising
bullshit. You are merely yet another internet crackpot, the latest in a line of
thousands of kooks. Give it up and go and educate yourself.
I can say that too to TOE. But I am not that person, I still honor those scientists in
their fields since they are also humans like me who had life to live.
Nothing personal in scientific fields. We are just trying to argue which is which.
If I found wrong, then, so be it. If I found them wrong, then, so be it.
Nothing personal. We are all the same humans.
Don't worry. I knew that you will surely hate me since
I've been saying and claiming that TOE is wrong. It's life.
But it did not say that all the TOE are stupid. Scientists in TOE are intelligent
(but of course not perfect, so errors will found)
that but they've forgotten some mechanisms that are undiscovered.
I've just said that there are undiscovered and unknown mechanisms in nature that TOE had
forgotten that is why TOE is now incorrect and wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Granny Magda, posted 07-22-2009 10:46 AM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by Theodoric, posted 07-22-2009 1:14 PM interrelation has replied
 Message 70 by Granny Magda, posted 07-22-2009 1:57 PM interrelation has replied
 Message 72 by Parasomnium, posted 07-22-2009 2:51 PM interrelation has replied

  
interrelation
Member (Idle past 5389 days)
Posts: 31
From: Japan
Joined: 07-20-2009


Message 69 of 160 (515984)
07-22-2009 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Theodoric
07-22-2009 1:14 PM


Re: OK lets get down to basics
I understand what scientific theory is. I also understand that TOE is scientific theory but TOE is incomplete theory. Therefore, it is incomplete scientific theory...that means wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Theodoric, posted 07-22-2009 1:14 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Theodoric, posted 07-22-2009 1:59 PM interrelation has replied
 Message 75 by RAZD, posted 07-22-2009 10:25 PM interrelation has replied

  
interrelation
Member (Idle past 5389 days)
Posts: 31
From: Japan
Joined: 07-20-2009


Message 77 of 160 (516163)
07-23-2009 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Theodoric
07-22-2009 1:59 PM


Re: OK lets get down to basics
Here is my working definition of theory. This is where I follow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nL5GotAVN58

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Theodoric, posted 07-22-2009 1:59 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Theodoric, posted 07-23-2009 5:51 PM interrelation has replied

  
interrelation
Member (Idle past 5389 days)
Posts: 31
From: Japan
Joined: 07-20-2009


Message 79 of 160 (516227)
07-24-2009 7:13 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by Granny Magda
07-22-2009 1:57 PM


Re: Did Not
Since nothing in your post is even close to coherent and since you seem unable or unwilling to address what is being said to you, I will leave you to your delusions of grandeur. Clearly nothing I say will make the slightest impact on you and any further effort on my part to help you see through these delusions will be wasted effort. You appear to be beyond help. I can only reiterate my suggestion that you abandon your silly ideas and go and get an education and, perhaps, a psychiatric examination.
Every things you said had impact on me. But I am also thinking for a better explanation.
But anyway, thank you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Granny Magda, posted 07-22-2009 1:57 PM Granny Magda has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by PaulK, posted 07-24-2009 7:46 AM interrelation has not replied

  
interrelation
Member (Idle past 5389 days)
Posts: 31
From: Japan
Joined: 07-20-2009


Message 81 of 160 (516253)
07-24-2009 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by RAZD
07-22-2009 10:15 PM


Re: Silly experiments and reality
Hi again interrelation, I'm still wondering when you will ever deal with the
facts of evolution.
But the question is -- did you do the same experiment with plants - see if
they avoided the stick?
If they don't, and the mechanism is really a process to avoid death,
then should not plants exhibit the same behavior?
Did you do it with bacteria? With sponges? Starfish? Coral? Opossums? Turtles?
Hi RAZD, sorry that I'm late in my reply. I was very busy on this days.
In plants? Yes, some vegetables garden. I've just watched them the way I've watched
the mongo beans. They had the same results.
Plants don't avoid stick since plants can't move. You knew it already,
it is very obvious. But there are some plants that I've experimented that
when you touched their leaves, they folded down.
I hope I can give the name to you, but
I will try to search it here in my place.
I knew the name in my local name but I forgot the name in English.
Next time , I can give it you.
The result is the same...Interrelation.
Not yet in bacteria, but the nylon-eating bacteria did interrelate as seen in lab.
With sponges? Not yet. Starfish? Not yet. Coral? Not yet.
Opossums? Not yet. Turtles? Yes. It tried to hide its head when threaten.
Except that you did not test Darwin's concepts nor TOE in any way.
If you don't know that then you know squat about evolution.
What you have done is test individual organisms to see if
they react to their environment -- curiously the ability of
life to react to it's environment is one of the defining
elements of living things.
You are correct that "the ability of
life to react to it's environment is one of the defining
elements of living things" and that is the reason why I had
usd the biotic preservation mechanism as the main
mechanism of Interelation Theory beacsue that it should be.
We know it by test and experiment. In this, I've proved that I'm right.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
You have proven that living organisms exhibit one of the defining elements
of living things. WOW.
I've proven that all living things made life as "first" priority.
You have also shown, yet have not seemed to have observed, is that the
methods used by different organisms to react to their environment are different,
due to their different evolution.
Of course, but there is a sequence..a pattern. That is
the reason why time mechanism is very important.
Even the living organisms too knew the difference
between the "needs" and the "wants" for them.
They need life, they want food.
Which is first? Life first, then food.
Look at the rats again. Let's use a mousetrap.
If the rats sense danger, eventhough the food is
too delicious for them, they fled leaving food.
(Wow, I did it many times in
our house since we had many pests (rats).
This is a pattern...a time mechanism.
This is a simple of pattern in time mechanism.
Except for the minor detail that your experiments have zilch, zero, nada,
zip, rien, nothing to do with natural selection. Why?
Because it doesn't test for the differential preservation of different
inherited traits from one generation to the next within a population.
You don't have a population.
You don't have a generation.
All you have is sadistically tormenting small animals for no apparent purpose.
Eventhough you have population, eventhough you have generation, eventhough you have
million years, TOE will never make it. Why? Since TOE had forgotten time mechanism.
Time mechanism kills TOE.
Now lets look at some more of you silly concepts:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Time mechanism actually limits or kills diversification. That means, time kills TOE.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And again, when we look at the evidence this is not what we see.
The previous example of pelycodus starts with a population with
a variety of sizes, and after time has passed ends up with a wider variety of
sizes split into two distinct populations. This diagram actively shows evolution
occurring:.........
.......Looks to me like the organisms thrived over time,
increasing in diversity, and with no apparent limit.
Ok, it is very easy. In TOE, the above explanation maybe correct.
But in Interrelation Theory, the graph that had been presented is the graph
of Interrelation Theory. The graph was telling us that in the process of
their interrelation to the environmenet and surroundings with
respect to time, those lemurs were changing. But very limited. And gradually changing
since the earth geological phase was very slow.
What Interrelation Theory said in the time mechanism is that the lemur will never
cross on its base species. Base species is the species that were designed by CIO
to live and interrelate with the respect to time (era) and surroundings.
Those lemurs were still lemurs. Their change was very limited.
And they changed by the process of BPM.
So, we are still talking Interrelation Theory here.
Can you show where on the side scale (the one that shows time)
where time is being ignored?
If you could see Interelation Theory web site, it talks about
Time Mechanism, the MSM there.
To make it short, nature has her own pattern of any stages,
that if that pattern breaks, the whole system fails.
For example, let us look at the human embryo...
The fetus has a pattern, a change, a time sequence and stages.
From the time of sexual intercourse (release of gamete),
this fetus with respect to time is following a pattern/stages but fetus
follows a certain fixed and pre-set pattern with time.
But if you could see, this fetus will never break its
pattern in all child-bearing mother's embryo.
If it breaks, the child will die.
The pattern is the same to all human embryo, but the changes
will only/limited to the sizes, weight, exact duration of stages and maybe
position of fetuses with respect to all fetuses in all human embryos.
The fetus has a fixed or limited stages with respect to time
and the change is permissible change of fetus to every embryo to survive.
This is one explanation in time mechanism in Interrelation Theory.
(I had here in my mind clearly but I could hardly put it
in words in English. Maybe I need to rephrase the above explanation
so that all could understand) (Or somebody here could rephrase it for us,
if you understand the concept of time mechanism, please).
So in the above picture, the ignored part is time: that the change of lemur
(like the change of fetus) is inevitable, but this change had a limit.
This is the ignored part.
What causes the limitation? Once you have speciation you have two populations
that increase variations over time, and different natural selection
(the real kind) operating on the two different populations with necessarily
different results -- necessarily different because
(a) the mutations that provide opportunity for increased survival and reproduction will
necessarily be different and
(b) because the ecology that is imposing a selective filter on what
organisms survive and reproduce better than other is also necessarily different.
Diversity by TOE is inevitable. It is specifically predicted by the theory,
And it is observed in reality.
What causes of the limitations? The natural processes or patterns or stages
of cells in all living forms are the limitations. I say cells because I suspect that cells
was the one which is doing it. My observation tells me that nature, to preserve
life, has pre-set and has fixed process but it has also allowable and permissible
factor of change. The CIO is very intelligent since
while the process or pattern in nature is fixed and irreversible,
the process can accumulate limited (allowable) change as factor of safety of that
pattern or process,
and when this process breaks or when the changes exceeds, the system will fail.
Thus, no preservation of life.
What the TOE had been seeing is the only the "allowable or limited change with respect to time"
of the pre-set pattern or stages. That means,
in reality, the actual definition of evolution would be
"Evolution is the allowable or limited change in any process/stage in ansystem with
respect to time"
but since evolution is only a limited change in the system, evolution is not the
purpose of the system nor not the system at all.
Therefore if TOE will forget the time mechanism, TOE will become the whole system,
an not the limited part in the system.
Now, "whole" and "part" is different. Like square and cube is different.
Did you get me?
A true scientist would go back to the drawing board. Actually a true scientist
would never get to your drawing board - they would learn the facts first,
and study evolution rather than beat up the neighbors cats and dogs.
I knew it. I've been going back to my drawing board and found out always
that TOE is wrong since it ignored the time mechanism.
Sadly for you genetics shows that your concept is codswallop. Preserved in DNA
are small inserts caused by viral infections that have been deactivated by
the surviving cells, these insertions are passed on to following generations because
(a) they are there and (b) they do not affect survival, reproduction or development
of the organisms. There is also absolutely no rational reason for exactly the same
insertion of exactly the same kind of virus in exactly the same sequence from one
individual to another, let alone from one species to another.
When these inserts are compared between the genomes of different species they show a
tree of hereditary relationship that logically only comes via common descent from
the individual with the original infection.
Fascinatingly this tree of relationship matches that previously derived from the
homologies in the fossil record. Amazingly they even extend back to the original
life forms, with the three major domains of life, archea, bacteria and eucharyota.
Yeah, the above explanaton fits the TOE.
But, Interrelation Theory has an explanation for that. In Interrelation Theory, the
APM mechanism is responsible for that. In short, the inserts were the results of the
fights between virus and the cells, and the inserts were actually the "scars" left in fight.
I mean, all living organisms to survive had a defense mechanism as stated in my Advantageous
Properties Mechanism. And if we could find it in two different species, in the same place,
then, this virus, on the history of these two species, attacked the two species,
on the same time/era!
That means, the two species had no common descent! The viral infections were telling it so!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by RAZD, posted 07-22-2009 10:15 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by RAZD, posted 07-24-2009 9:58 PM interrelation has not replied

  
interrelation
Member (Idle past 5389 days)
Posts: 31
From: Japan
Joined: 07-20-2009


Message 82 of 160 (516256)
07-24-2009 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by Parasomnium
07-22-2009 2:51 PM


Re: Did Not
So basically, what you're saying is that natural selection is unnatural?
Interesting choice of words, I must say. No wonder it doesn't make sense.
Anyway, I would like to see you describe your BPM in a little more detail.
If it's a mechanism, there must be details you can describe. How exactly does it work?
Can it be influenced in some way, with chemicals, drugs, or whatever?
Does it have a basis in molecular biology? Are there certain organelles
in the cells that regulate its expression? Please, tell us.
Thanks for the question.
Yes, TOE's natural selection is really unnatural.
I don't know if you had read this:
Biotic Preservation Mechanism (BPM) is a mechanism in where all individual organism
in a given population interrelates due to the fact that their "life" or "existence"
is very important to them. In short, there is the need for all individual organisms
to preserve and protect their life, as an individual and as an entity. There is also
that force, the biotic preservation force that triggers all individual organisms to
interrelate just to survive. This is the reason why in our observable nature,
all living things interrelates . This is a behavioral mechanism.
Influence in some ways? Yes, possible.
Basis in molecular biology? No, Behavioral biology, I think is OK. Not molecular.
The other mechanism of Interrelation Theory will.
Organelles in cells? maybe not, but in other mechanism, I think it is OK.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Parasomnium, posted 07-22-2009 2:51 PM Parasomnium has not replied

  
interrelation
Member (Idle past 5389 days)
Posts: 31
From: Japan
Joined: 07-20-2009


Message 83 of 160 (516259)
07-24-2009 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by RAZD
07-22-2009 10:25 PM


Re: Logic Lessons
No, what makes a theory wrong is contradictory evidence, like the evidence of pelycodus and foraminifera (just for starters) that totally invalidate your concept.
Now you have shown that you don't understand natural selection, evolution, life, biology, science, the scientific process and logic.
What's next?
Yes, a theory can be considered wrong by contradictory evidence. And the cause of this contradictory evidence is that TOE is incomplete in the light of new evidence.
TOE ignores time...just like flat-earthers ignore the pictures of earth from space, from moon!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by RAZD, posted 07-22-2009 10:25 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
interrelation
Member (Idle past 5389 days)
Posts: 31
From: Japan
Joined: 07-20-2009


Message 84 of 160 (516263)
07-24-2009 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by caffeine
07-23-2009 8:51 AM


Re: Did Not
For an experiment to make us favour one hypothesis or theory over another,
it would have to be testing something where the two different ideas predict different
results. You've claimed several times that your experiments have demonstrated
Interrelation theoryEto be a better explanation than the theory of evolution.
So, for this to be true, the results would have to, in some way,
match the predictions of interrelation theory while differing from
the predictions of evolutionary theory.
Let's consider, then, what results we expect for these experiments from an evolutionary
perspective. The theory of evolution states that heritable traits which increase a
lifeform ability to produce successful offspring will spread in populations,
so wed expect most lifeforms to exhibit traits that aid in their survival and
reproduction (at least in their usual environments).
It is correct that in living organisms they have heritable trait but
it doesn't mean that this trait will be the factor in the origin of new organisms
or species. It is wrong to conclude that.
You can read my response to RAZD, for further explanation.
We know that (most) plants need sunlight in order to survive.
Evolutionary theory predicts that plants better able to extract
energy from sunlight will be more reproductively successful,
and so plant populations will exhibit traits which have made
them good at getting access to sufficient sunlight.
What we see in your experiment is that the plant with little direct sunlight will
react by growing further, possibly enabling it to reach sunlight.
This is a plant exhibiting a trait which increases its ability to
reach sunlight, and thus survive and reproduce.
The results of the experiment are perfectly in line with evolutionary theory.
Of course, you can call the result evolution by natural selection. But as Interrelation
Theory states that the reason why the plant and all plants are struggling to live
and struggling to change (interrelate) in nature is that because of
biotic preservation mechanism, BPM and not the natural selection.
And the reason why we cannot rely now in TOE is just because TOE had an
incomplete mechanisms. Incomplete mechanisms will result in incomplete explanation,
that will result in incomplete and therefore, erroneous theory in science.
[qs]Animals need to survive long enough to reach reproductive age before
they can leave any offspring. Once they have, the longer they survive
the more they can usually produce. For species
like rats that care for their young, their continued survival also increases
the survival chances of their offspring. From all this, evolutionary theory
would predict that animals, generally speaking, exhibit traits that cause
them to avoid mortal danger (except when necessary for a ‘higher causeElike mating).
Your experiment shows that a rat’s reaction to a physical threat from a big lumbering
thing with a stick is to frantically try and escape, preserving its life.
This is exactly what evolutionary theory predicts.{/qs
Well, what should I say. In TOE perspective maybe you are correct.
Of course, you can call the result evolution by natural selection. But as Interrelation
Theory states that the reason why the plant and all plants are struggling to live
and struggling to change (interrelate) in nature is that because of
biotic preservation mechanism, BPM and not the natural selection.
And the reason why we cannot rely now in TOE is just because TOE had an
incomplete mechanisms. Incomplete mechanisms will result in incomplete explanation,
that will result in incomplete and therefore, erroneous theory in science.
Now, I’m not trying to claim that these experiments demonstrate evolutionary
theory to be accurate, just that they cannot be used to debunk it.
Maybe the results of these experiments accurately match the predictions
of your interrelation theory. But then they also fit the predictions of
the theory of evolution. As a result, these experiments are useless when
it comes to testing which theory has the better explanatory and predictive power.
I think it is time mechanism that separates TOE from Interrelation Theory.
Of course, Interrelation Theory had still three mechanisms to offer.
Of course, you can call the result evolution by natural selection. But as Interrelation
Theory states that the reason why the plant and all plants are struggling to live
and struggling to change (interrelate) in nature is that because of
biotic preservation mechanism, BPM and not the natural selection.
And the reason why we cannot rely now in TOE is just because TOE had an
incomplete mechanisms. Incomplete mechanisms will result in incomplete explanation,
that will result in incomplete and therefore, erroneous theory in science.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by caffeine, posted 07-23-2009 8:51 AM caffeine has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by caffeine, posted 07-26-2009 8:56 AM interrelation has not replied

  
interrelation
Member (Idle past 5389 days)
Posts: 31
From: Japan
Joined: 07-20-2009


Message 85 of 160 (516267)
07-24-2009 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by lyx2no
07-22-2009 7:01 PM


Re: Change the Header Already
You mistake a motive for a mechanism. Your rat has a motive for squeezing through
an impossibly tiny hole, but that doesn't supply a "how" unless rat wishes come true.
Now, the rat's stress may cause it to suffer an increased, nervous metabolism,
loss of appetite, and weight reduction. There you have a mechanism: anxiety.
Well, since it is life that the rat was protecting, then, it must be
biotic preservation mechanism. Nothing else, nothing more.
Nonetheless, this is not the point at which one reaches a grand conclusion; aka,
THEORY. One says to themselves, "Self, Is there a possible connection with this
rat's predicable behavior to cellulose impactor events (CIE)'s
(Just trying to make my post all sciency like yours) and the long term variation in
rat populations? What might that connection be and how could that connection
be made observable?" If one manages to concoct a mechanism, one makes
predictions of unique, observable, sufficient and necessary outcomes
to which one can tailor experiments that can make plain the connection.
Not wishing to die is a wee bit too ubiquitous to be considered unique,
sufficient or necessary. Congrat's, professional dude, you achieved observable.
What you are asking me are some details. I understand it. But the main job for me is to
make a right mechanisms and theory for the observed facts in nature.
The rests will be details. Of course there are connections since in Interelation Theory,
there are all in all four mechanisms that go hand in hand with each others.
So, to clear those details out are very simple.
First, let's build the house. After that, the furnishing and finishings.
You also keep making the strange argument that proponents of the ToE don't know,
don't care, or don't concur about rat responses to (CIE)'s I think it's safe to
say we all respond negatively to (CIE)'s and therein recognize the impetus for
the rat to seek lodgings elsewhere.
Yeah, there will be some similarity in TOE. But in Interrelation Theory, "life" is the
purpose of all living organisms that is why the main mechanism is biotic preservation
mechanisms BPM. But in TOE, it is the opposite. TOE believes that natural selection is the
main mechanism for rats to change, while in Interrelation Theory, it is the will to survive
or BPM cause those rats to change.
It is the opposite, right? The starting point is totally opposite.
You also have to rid yourself of the silly notion of the more mechanisms the better.
Newton reduced planetary motions to a single mechanism. Anyone want to add a Revolution
Preservation Mechanism (RPM). {I can hear the conservation of angular momentum crowd
even now. Well, shut-up.}{ And before any of you don't shut-up, I know that orbital
deflection is not a conserved property but continually induced by gravity.
So my little joke doesn't really work if given any consideration, So I'll not make it
in stand-up; well, boo-hoo.}
Thanks. You made me laugh.
Have you never notice that we don't now believe that the earth is flat and the sun revolves
around the earth? Why? Because we are looking for new mechanisms that fit the facts.
The more we have mechanisms in the complex living organisms, the more
we can see the actual happening and the actual observable facts in nature.
Planetary motions, angular momentum, orbital deflection,.etc...they are different from
living organisms. So we need to deal them separately. Three dimesions is better than
two dimensions.
Ever hear of the Law of Parsimony: Occam's razor. My own corollary states one event
has one mechanism. ToE has two parts; thus, two mechanisms. Part one: Variation.
Part two: Selection. Mechanism one: Imperfect Replication.
Mechanism two: Limited Resources. Sufficient and necessary.
I knew that. But four mechanisms is not too much in the living organisms.
Why?
Here's why:
evolution is the change in time.
Since TOE does not have time mechanism eventhough its definition requiree it
in its definition, TOE is incorrect. So time actually kills TOE.
You have no new ideas at your website. You've named a few ideas that have been
floating around. Your CIO, or whatever, is the same as the Noah's ark boy's
"kinds" claim. Your "time" thingy is merely a claim to having "discovered"
a mechanism to limit the evolution you're forced to admit. Watch this:
"Hey look guys, an 8th continent."
Okay, who believed me? 'cause I didn't really discover an 8th continent.
I was only pretending. Try it for yourself EOh yeah! That's right. You already did.
I can say that too to TOE. But I think you need to study more on time mechanism,
yeah, just for your own new learning. Once you've seen what I've seen, you will
surely know that I am correct.
Well, eventhough you cannot accept this theory, I don't care.
Even so, Interrelation Theory is still there, observable and yestable.
Pleae, read my reply to RAZD. I think you will know this theory a little bit.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by lyx2no, posted 07-22-2009 7:01 PM lyx2no has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by Perdition, posted 07-24-2009 12:11 PM interrelation has replied
 Message 90 by lyx2no, posted 07-24-2009 2:11 PM interrelation has not replied

  
interrelation
Member (Idle past 5389 days)
Posts: 31
From: Japan
Joined: 07-20-2009


Message 86 of 160 (516269)
07-24-2009 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by Theodoric
07-23-2009 5:51 PM


Re: OK lets get down to basics
am not going to watch some Youtube video.
I can only assume that you do not know what a scientific theory is.
You seem to be unable to define it. Until you can show you have a basic
understanding of something like Scientific Theory, then there is no sense
in having any discussion with you on this topic.
You have a hypothesis( actually I don't think it even qualifies as that).
It is not a scientific theory. If you think it is, you are sadly delusional.
TOE is a Scientific theory. Something very different from your theory.
No matter what you think they are not on the same ground.
How come you pre-judge me without seeing the video???
If that is the way you treat an event and problem in nature, judging without seeing the facts,
then
it is predictable that you cannot make a good conclusion of the facts of nature.
I think the reason why you will defend to death the TOE, not beacsue TOE is correct,
but maybe because of your pre-assumptioned belief, right?
Your definition of theory is still incorrect. You need to watch the video,
it will help you a lot.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Theodoric, posted 07-23-2009 5:51 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
interrelation
Member (Idle past 5389 days)
Posts: 31
From: Japan
Joined: 07-20-2009


Message 88 of 160 (516273)
07-24-2009 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by Perdition
07-24-2009 12:11 PM


Re: Interrelation = Evolution, as far as I can tell
"What does your idea predict that is in conflict with evolution, and can you show that the prediction you make is actually the way things work?
If you can't answer this question, then your idea has no scientific worth and will be relegated to the trash heap of all failed ideas and hypotheses.
Time. Time kills TOE.
Can you please, read some of my answers to RAZD.
Read some of my answers/posts here.
If not, you will never know Interrelation Theory.
Know your enemy first b4 u fight.
http://www.interrelation-theory.com
Edited by interrelation, : No reason given.
Edited by interrelation, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by Perdition, posted 07-24-2009 12:11 PM Perdition has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by Perdition, posted 07-24-2009 12:27 PM interrelation has not replied

  
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