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Author Topic:   Is Evolution the only option in a Naturalistic point of view ?
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2127 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 6 of 104 (517620)
08-01-2009 10:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by slevesque
08-01-2009 4:04 AM


Is Evolution is the only option in a Naturalistic point of view? At present, yes
Knowing this, it seems that there are two option concerning the development of life:
1. Either animal kinds are static
2. Or they are not static, and so they can become other animal kinds given enough time. (I use the word 'kind' instead of 'species' because it has a broader sense then the later)
Now, in a Naturalistic, or atheist etc. point of view, there seems to be only one option: the second one. I come to this conclusion because there are no naturalists that I have ever heard of who are proponents of the first option.
That may be because naturalists rely on evidence, and leave religious beliefs and pseudoscience to the philosophers, eh?
Static "kinds" have no basis in science. If it were not for the bible we would never hear of this option, nor even consider it for a moment. It is pure religious apologetics.
Also, it seems a logical conclusion from the fact that we know the universe does not have an infinite past, and so since animals do not pop out of thin air, the only option is that they evolved from a lesser state, and a lesser state, etc. up to a primordial soup. I have to be careful here and make a precision: I am not saying that Neo-Darwinism (as natural selection+mutation are the mechanisms of this evolution) is the only option, but only that evolution is.
Evolution is not the "mechanism." "Evolution" is the term used to describe changes in the genome.
And if "natural selection+mutation," or something quite similar, are not the "mechanisms of this evolution" what are? Does Old Man Coyote or some lesser deity nudge things along at times? If you think so, please specify the scientific evidence for this position. And, to save time, please specify the scientific evidence for which deity or deities is/are the culprit.
The Theist, or the non-Naturalist, still has both option. I come to this conclusion because there are Theists who are proponents of both ideas, and also that a universe that had a beginning does not prevent a force, or God, etc. outside of nature to create the animal kinds as static.
The theist has both options to the extent that they reject the naturalist option (that is, the one with evidence) for religious reasons. There is no scientific evidence for deities pushing genes or mutations around at will.
Kinds is a religious belief. Theistic evolution is a religious belief. Neither has any scientific evidence supporting it.
But fundamentalists and avid creationists are unwilling to accept this, hence creationism, creation "science," and most recently ID.
Believe what you want, but please don't try to inflict your particular religious belief upon either science or our schools.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by slevesque, posted 08-01-2009 4:04 AM slevesque has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-01-2009 10:43 PM Coyote has not replied
 Message 16 by slevesque, posted 08-01-2009 11:50 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2127 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 65 of 104 (517883)
08-03-2009 4:57 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by slevesque
08-03-2009 12:14 AM


Clarification
ALthough I would think that a law, before being established as a law, was a theory, no ?
No.
From a list I put together a while ago.
Theory: a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of circumstances to explain a specific set of phenomena; theories can incorporate facts and laws and tested hypotheses. Theories do not grow up to be laws. Theories explain laws.
Theory: A scientifically testable general principle or body of principles offered to explain observed phenomena. In scientific usage, a theory is distinct from a hypothesis (or conjecture) that is proposed to explain previously observed phenomena. For a hypothesis to rise to the level of theory, it must predict the existence of new phenomena that are subsequently observed. A theory can be overturned if new phenomena are observed that directly contradict the theory. (Source)
When a scientific theory has a long history of being supported by verifiable evidence, it is appropriate to speak about "acceptance" of (not "belief" in) the theory; or we can say that we have "confidence" (not "faith") in the theory. It is the dependence on verifiable data and the capability of testing that distinguish scientific theories from matters of faith.
Law: a generalization that describes recurring facts or events in nature; "the laws of thermodynamics."

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by slevesque, posted 08-03-2009 12:14 AM slevesque has not replied

  
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