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Author | Topic: Is Evolution the only option in a Naturalistic point of view ? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9196 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3 |
Rejecting a law is, in my opinion, much more difficult than a scientific theory, as it is at the top of the ladder of science. I know this is off topic, but this statement just demonstrates the ignorance you and most creationists bring to the table. There is no hierarchy in science like this. Theories do not get elevated to laws.In a nutshell. quote: Read thisScientific Theory, Law, and Hypothesis Explained | Wilstar.com it might help you with your basic understanding of scientific laws and theories. Then again maybe it won't. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9196 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3 |
There is a lady I know very well that was diagnosed with a cancer by her doctor, who used x-rays etc. to identify it. Despite that she had the x-ray right in front of here, she refused to believe it and so went to another city to see another doctor so that he would examine her if she had a cancer. (Health care is free here in quebec, so she was paying herself a little 'luxury' haha) Same tests, same results with the same cancer at the same place. She still didn't accept it, and drove 2 hours to another hospital in another city, and was rechecked if she had cancer. Again, exactly the same results. Now seeing these three independant confirmations that she had a cancer, she finally accepted it. After scheduling here operation to have it removed, she said to the doctor: ''God didn't say his last word on all this!'' and left. Fast forward a month or two later, at the day scheduled for here operation. She was in the hospital elevator with the doctor, all set to go down to the operation room when a nurse came running to announce that the pre-operation tests had revealed that there were no more cancer. The new x-rays were totally different from the three previous ones, and the cancer had in fatc disappeared. When the lady turned to the doctor and asked: 'What happened ?' the doctor simply replied: 'It happenned exactly what you told me.' This was revealing because that doctor was not a christian at all, and yet didn't even try to explain what had happened. He had recognized a miracle when he saw one. Anyone can provide an anecdote. There are many places in this story where the facts could be altered. Evidence is what is required. Was this written up in medical literature? I think something like this would get some sort of mention. What is your proof the doc wasn't a christian? Seems like a convenient addition to me. Show me evidence. Xrays, testimonials from doctors, follow up exams. I am sure you have none of this and there is none. This not evidence. This is folklore until there is independent verification. Nothing more. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9196 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3 |
and even luckier that they are both christians. What? Good things don't happen to non-christians? Why would you assume being christian has anything to do with anything? Now you know two people that this happened to? I just spoke to a friend who is a radiologist. He says that though something like this is uncommon it is not rare. Spontaneous remission of cancer is not an unknown phenomenon. Tends to drive docs crazy, because peoeple start proclaiming miracles. He even knows of people that received treatment and then claim that it was some sort of miracle. No sense giving the docs and medicine any credit when you can give it all to god. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9196 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3 |
I sound arrogant because you have been given the info numerous times, but still decide to remain ignorant.
I'm only 19 years old and I haven't planed on stoping to learn.
Maybe you should stop and learn a little bit. It might help you in your discussions here. I can not make you learn, but maybe if you stopped and read what people told you and followed a link or two you might actually learn something.
ALthough I would think that a law, before being established as a law, was a theory, no ?
NO, NO, NO and NO. If you had just read what I posted you would see that this is wrong. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9196 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3 |
For amputees, I think the answer lies in that a lost limb should not be considered an illness. So your god limits his miracles to illnesses? Or is it that he can't replace a limb? I am sure that this all sounds logical to you, but it is pure rationalizing in order to get reality to fit into your belief set. All these miracles you keep talking about, where is the evidence? Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9196 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3 |
I just want to say that two previous persons had already answered my question, and that I did stop and read what they told me ...
The problem is when I get to reading a thread, I don't read all the posts then decide which to respond to. I read them one at a time and respond at that time. This is the nature of forums like this. Deal with it. I mean, you could also read what others posted so that I don't get three times the same answer. Once is usually enough with me Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9196 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3 |
I do think that the belief in God/Gods (the theistic position) is innate in humans, even in evolutionnary theory. The belief i na particular God/Gods is of course acquired knowledge though. Great topic for another thread. The problem is you have no evidence. Just your preconceived ideas from your own indoctrination. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9196 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3 |
Any chance he could tell you the christian/non-christian ratio of the spontaneous cancer remissions ? No but their have been studies on the effectiveness of prayer. Or should I say ineffectiveness.
Abstract of original study.
News storyquote: Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9196 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3 |
If you look at my reply to him and compare it to what the others had said you will see that my message was quite different from theirs. I had earlier posted info explaining the differences between a law and a hypothesis, which he problem ignored As a matter of fact the post in question was a reply to ME.
There is no intent and I think it is quite difficult to interpret my response as "piling on". I will respond to replies to my post. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9196 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3 |
Barrett who is the researcher in the article you linked to is hardly a subjective researcher.
quote: Source This study was funded by the Templeton Foundation. The purpose of the Templeton Foundation is to promote religion(christianity).Before presenting something as clear evidence you should probably look at the responses to it.Children of God? | AC Grayling | The Guardian quote: Sure sounds like Mr. Barrett went into the study with preconceived ideas.
quote:The Times & The Sunday Times As for the New Scientist article, it is purely an article. I don't subscribe that mag so I cannot read the full article. New Scientist is not known to be a stellar research mag , but the quick blurb does not convince me that the article necessarily says what you say it does. Has anyone here actually read the article? What is it based on? Who are the researchers?
Anyhow, I find the title of the following article to be revealing to the fact that you did in fact push the 'indoctrination' and 'no evidence' button quite early: There is nothing here to show me you are correct. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9196 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3 |
I guess I used the wrong terminology. I prob should not have used research at all in my description of New Scientist. At the time I was struggling to come up with a good description of it. "Science News" magazine is a great way to describe it. I will use that in the future.
ABE I wonder if Slevesque will respond to my post. I'd certainly like to see his attempts at legitimizing his argument. Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9196 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3 |
From the last article you quote.
quote: I think any information is preliminary at best. This researcher makes a very clear point that it is difficult to study very young children and at 3 1/2 have they are heavily influenced by society.
I could as legitimately say that these beliefs dissapear when socially repressed. I do not see how this line of argument helps you. In a sense this is what Grayling is saying. By not reinforcing the belief, the belief is in a sense repressed. Guess I do not understand how you think this is a significant point. Again, you have made comments claiming that children have an innate belief in a creator. As of yet you have failed to provide convincing evidence that this is true. A few studies by committed christians, that I have nor seen any peer review of, and one article in a science magazine and another in a magazine that has as it mission statement the following.
quote: Not very convincing for us non-believers. Children believe in a lot of things. A lot of things that arent real. I guess the next question I have is why do you and the religious feel that if children believe in a god, somehow this make a god more likely or real. Finally on that, why do you even assume it is your christian god? As for the Templeton Foundation, there is a lot of negative e feeling toward them in the scientific community. It isn't just Grayling and Dawkins either.
quote:Source Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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