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Author Topic:   Pick and Choose Fundamentalism
Peg
Member (Idle past 3034 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 376 of 384 (518438)
08-06-2009 3:08 AM
Reply to: Message 367 by bluescat48
08-05-2009 6:17 AM


Re: Cowardice by any Name
bluescat48 writes:

How did they know this when "God" only revealed himself to Israel?

because Abraham lived with them in the same region. He and his family moved freely around the territory, they camped in areas where they had regular contact with the canaanites in places such as Shechem (Ge 12:6), Bethel and Ai (Ge 12:8), Hebron (Ge 13:18), Gerar (Ge 20:1), and Beer-sheba (Ge 22:19)

Also, Rahab showed that she knew of Gods plan to give the land to the Isrealites which is why she asked to be spared.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 367 by bluescat48, posted 08-05-2009 6:17 AM bluescat48 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 379 by bluescat48, posted 08-06-2009 6:59 AM Peg has responded

    
anglagard
Member
Posts: 2185
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 377 of 384 (518439)
08-06-2009 3:10 AM
Reply to: Message 373 by Peg
08-06-2009 2:38 AM


Re: Cowardice by any Name
Peg writes:

christianity and judaism are completely different things, obviously.

It does not appear so obvious if some forms of Christianity emphasize the OT over the NT, such as when those forms deny all science, democracy, and any questioning of 'authority' in general.

It is unfortunate that so many so called "Christians" who have totally misinterpreted the OT still refuse to ask a Jew what the actual meaning of the text may be. However it is not surprising given that the self-proclaimed 'saved' believe the primary purpose of life is to be smug, condescending, or at worst 'beyond good and evil' as such that any immoral behavior is allowed due to viewing all others as less than human.

Not that you would be guilty of any of these infractions, of course.

Edited by anglagard, : change ass to as, although it may be subliminal


The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes.
Salman Rushdie

This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. Its us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen


This message is a reply to:
 Message 373 by Peg, posted 08-06-2009 2:38 AM Peg has not yet responded

    
Peg
Member (Idle past 3034 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 378 of 384 (518440)
08-06-2009 3:17 AM
Reply to: Message 375 by anglagard
08-06-2009 3:03 AM


Re: Cowardice by any Name
sounds like you are describing human nature and i dont think i'm totally free of the traits you mention

thats the beauty of christianity though, it allows people time to change whereas the mosaic law did not.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 375 by anglagard, posted 08-06-2009 3:03 AM anglagard has not yet responded

    
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 379 of 384 (518451)
08-06-2009 6:59 AM
Reply to: Message 376 by Peg
08-06-2009 3:08 AM


Re: Cowardice by any Name
because Abraham lived with them in the same region.

That was hundreds of years earlier. The Canaanites didn't interact religiously with Abraham. Each group had its own deity or deities.
It is no different now, even though there are many people, who know of Yahweh, it is taken as simply a sects beliefs. Why do you think that there are hundreds Christian sects alone not to mention the other Abrahamic Religions, Judaism & Islam then the non-Abrahamic religions such as Hindu, Confucianism, Buddhist etc. Just knowing what others believe in doesn't mean that they will accept or adopt it.


There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008


This message is a reply to:
 Message 376 by Peg, posted 08-06-2009 3:08 AM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 380 by Peg, posted 08-06-2009 8:07 AM bluescat48 has not yet responded

    
Peg
Member (Idle past 3034 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 380 of 384 (518457)
08-06-2009 8:07 AM
Reply to: Message 379 by bluescat48
08-06-2009 6:59 AM


Re: Cowardice by any Name
bluescat48 writes:

Just knowing what others believe in doesn't mean that they will accept or adopt it.

no, thats true

however the account of Rahab shows that she knew of the inheritance issue. so it must have been a talking point for the Canaanites to some degree whether they believed it or not.

obviously many didnt believe it because they chose to fight and they likely believed they would win the fight.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 379 by bluescat48, posted 08-06-2009 6:59 AM bluescat48 has not yet responded

    
Perdition
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 381 of 384 (518470)
08-06-2009 9:24 AM
Reply to: Message 374 by Peg
08-06-2009 2:46 AM


Re: Less logical than I thought
the tree of life was a representation of everlasting life, not a literal life giving tree.

Then why was he worried that they would eat of the tree and become like gods, living forever? If the tree was a metaphor or a representation, then they could have eaten of it and not changed a thing.

But when they were removed from the garden, they no longer had everlasting life as a prospect.

Ok, but that means everlasting life wasn't a given, it was just a possibility. By having god remove them from the garden, he removed the possibility, but that doesn't equate to killing someone.

So he did kill them in that he allowed them to die.

I would disagree with this interpretation. Again, if I threaten someone with death, having it come from old age 100s of years later doesn't mean I carried out my threat, even if I had the possibility to prolong their life. I didn't kill them, I just didn't stop them from dying.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 374 by Peg, posted 08-06-2009 2:46 AM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 382 by Peg, posted 08-06-2009 11:52 PM Perdition has responded

    
Peg
Member (Idle past 3034 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 382 of 384 (518637)
08-06-2009 11:52 PM
Reply to: Message 381 by Perdition
08-06-2009 9:24 AM


Re: Less logical than I thought
Perdition writes:

I would disagree with this interpretation. Again, if I threaten someone with death, having it come from old age 100s of years later doesn't mean I carried out my threat, even if I had the possibility to prolong their life. I didn't kill them, I just didn't stop them from dying.

what you say is totally true for the example you give.

but thats not what happened in the case of A&E. God purposely removed them from the one place where they would live forever.

The power of life and death is in Gods hands and when A&E proved disloyal, he removed the prospect of everlasting life from them so that they had to die.

even though it happened at a much later date, it was still the direct result of God removing them from his presence.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 381 by Perdition, posted 08-06-2009 9:24 AM Perdition has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 383 by Perdition, posted 08-07-2009 10:33 AM Peg has responded

    
Perdition
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 383 of 384 (518700)
08-07-2009 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 382 by Peg
08-06-2009 11:52 PM


Re: Less logical than I thought
but thats not what happened in the case of A&E. God purposely removed them from the one place where they would live forever.

So, if I take someone from a first world nation, where we have antibiotics and many good health increasing medicines, and take them to a third world nation, where there is less access to drugs and more cases of disease running unchecked, and 10 years later, they catch malaria and die, is it my fault because I removed them from the place where they would not have caught malaria or had good drugs to combat it?

Or, perhaps closer to home, when England sent convicts to Australia and some of them died, was England responsible for their deaths?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 382 by Peg, posted 08-06-2009 11:52 PM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 384 by Peg, posted 08-08-2009 8:25 AM Perdition has not yet responded

    
Peg
Member (Idle past 3034 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 384 of 384 (518788)
08-08-2009 8:25 AM
Reply to: Message 383 by Perdition
08-07-2009 10:33 AM


Re: Less logical than I thought
Perdition writes:

Or, perhaps closer to home, when England sent convicts to Australia and some of them died, was England responsible for their deaths?

yes, the conditions they sent them in caused their death therefore they were responsible for those who died.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 383 by Perdition, posted 08-07-2009 10:33 AM Perdition has not yet responded

    
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