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Author Topic:   Evolutionary Theory Explains Diversity
Percy
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Posts: 22499
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 8 of 160 (464657)
04-27-2008 7:34 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Wumpini
04-27-2008 6:48 PM


Re: Do I qualify as an evophobe?
A common analogy when explaining the relationship between microevolution and macroevolution is walking. Each step in a walk takes one only a tiny distance, but one can walk all the way from New York to San Francisco one tiny step at a time. In the same way that the steps in a walk can accumulate into long distances, the small steps of microevolution gradually accumulate into large macroevolutionary changes.
The observations and conclusions you're responding to note that because all reproduction is imperfect that genetic change over time is inevitable. There is nothing that can prevent it, and natural selection locks in changes consistent with success in the environment. In other words, there is nothing that can stop the tiny steps of microevolution from taking place, and given that environmental change is just as inevitable the genetic changes will accumulate and eventually take the population long "distances" (genetically) from their original state.
A common response to the walking analogy is that macroevolution is actually like walking from New York to Paris - simply not possible. What's missing from this form of the analogy is the genetic equivalent of the Atlantic Ocean.
--Percy

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 Message 7 by Wumpini, posted 04-27-2008 6:48 PM Wumpini has replied

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Percy
Member
Posts: 22499
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 145 of 160 (518659)
08-07-2009 6:52 AM
Reply to: Message 144 by pandion
08-05-2009 1:47 PM


pandion writes:
Sorry, I can't. I don't know if this information is on the Internet. I actually was informed of this by a D.V.M.
I think we have to remain skeptical until reliable references can be identified.
--Percy

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 Message 144 by pandion, posted 08-05-2009 1:47 PM pandion has replied

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 Message 148 by pandion, posted 08-08-2009 12:29 AM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22499
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 149 of 160 (518785)
08-08-2009 6:56 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by pandion
08-08-2009 12:29 AM


What I found after a brief search with Google Scholar is that chihuahuas and Great Danes are unlikely to breed naturally, but I found nothing reliable that said it was impossible. They are mutually interfertile. I found nothing authoritative that the pregnancy couldn't go full term in either case, though problems and issues wouldn't be surprising.
But it would be nice if we could once and for all dispense with the creationist argument of "a dog is a dog is a dog" by discovering that there actually are some breeds of dogs that are not interfertile.
You noted the main problem, that most people would be relucant to introduce this argument into a discussion: "A guy on the Internet told me that his vet told him that Great Danes and chihuahuas can't interbreed and are actually different species." And of course anybody convinced would have to say (if honest), "A guy on the Internet told me that another guy on the Internet told him that his vet told him..."
So speaking for myself, I have to remain skeptical and not use the information until I have a reliable reference.
--Percy

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Percy
Member
Posts: 22499
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 155 of 160 (519093)
08-11-2009 8:38 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by greentwiga
08-10-2009 12:39 PM


Re: Mitochondrial Eve
greentwiga writes:
Though I am a fundamentalist Christian, I am looking at the Bible to see if it allows for Evolution.
The Bible says that God created the animals "According to their kinds," not "According to their *fixed* kinds." Reproduction is imperfect, so kinds (as defined by the various existing populations of animals) must inevitably change over time.
Anthropology shows a slow change in stone tools over millions of years, then as if overnight, men start quickly inventing a large variety of stone tools.
What change are you thinking of that occurred overnight?
--Percy

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 Message 153 by greentwiga, posted 08-10-2009 12:39 PM greentwiga has replied

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 Message 156 by greentwiga, posted 08-11-2009 10:36 AM Percy has not replied
 Message 158 by Percy, posted 08-12-2009 7:08 AM Percy has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22499
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 158 of 160 (519170)
08-12-2009 7:08 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by Percy
08-11-2009 8:38 AM


Re: Mitochondrial Eve
If you're looking to the pace of technological change as an indication of when God created the first real humans, then wouldn't the enlightenment, the industrial revolution, and the 20th century be more dramatic examples?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by Percy, posted 08-11-2009 8:38 AM Percy has not replied

  
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