EvC Forum: How can there be a creator without creation?

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Topic: How can there be a creator without creation?

ICANT

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Message 83 of 111 (520089)
08-19-2009 10:28 AM

Reply to: Message 80 by Modulous
08-19-2009 9:34 AM

Re: Thanks for responding.

Hi Mod,

Modulous writes:

That is what he is saying.

I read this sentence taking all his assertions in account as having a period he left out after original story.

I do realize we in America speak a different English than most countries.

Maybe you are a better mind reader than I am.

Maybe tuffers could clarify his assertion if he ever discusses it.

God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
	Message 80 by Modulous, posted 08-19-2009 9:34 AM		Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 94 by Modulous, posted 08-20-2009 1:22 PM		ICANT has not replied

ICANT

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Message 84 of 111 (520094)
08-19-2009 10:39 AM

Reply to: Message 82 by Huntard
08-19-2009 10:26 AM

Re: Thanks for responding.

Hi Huntard,

Huntard writes:

I hope it's clearer now.

Its clear that you and Mod think you understand what he meant.

I am not so sure.

tuffers stated in the OP "Many people today who accept that science has proven the creation story of the Bible to be fictional, somehow still believe in the creator from that story."

"science has proven the creation story of the Bible to be fictional"

He did not call this the original story.

Original story would be exactly how it happened.

Like I said to Mod if tuffers ever decides to discuss his assertions maybe I will understand what he is saying.

God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
	Message 82 by Huntard, posted 08-19-2009 10:26 AM		Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 85 by Huntard, posted 08-19-2009 10:45 AM		ICANT has replied

ICANT

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Message 86 of 111 (520100)
08-19-2009 10:57 AM

Reply to: Message 85 by Huntard
08-19-2009 10:45 AM

Re: Thanks for responding.

Hi Huntard,

Huntard writes:

Did you mean, like ICANT thinks, that the creation story of the bible has been proven by science.

Hold on there nelly,

I believe he meant that science had proven the creation story.

Not the Genesis story of creation.

God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
	Message 85 by Huntard, posted 08-19-2009 10:45 AM		Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 87 by Huntard, posted 08-19-2009 11:49 AM		ICANT has replied

ICANT

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Message 88 of 111 (520157)
08-19-2009 4:17 PM

Reply to: Message 87 by Huntard
08-19-2009 11:49 AM

Re: Thanks for responding.

Hi Huntard,

Huntard writes:

Uhm, it's quite clear that's the one he meant. What is "the creation story" anyway? What do you mean by that if not the one from genesis in this context?

Unless the universe is infinite it had to begin to exist.

Whether it was God, that beautiful pink unicorn, or Hawking's instanton 'some thing' caused it to begin to exist.

Or do you believe the universe to be infinite?

God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
	Message 87 by Huntard, posted 08-19-2009 11:49 AM		Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 89 by Huntard, posted 08-19-2009 4:33 PM		ICANT has replied

ICANT

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Message 90 of 111 (520164)
08-19-2009 5:11 PM

Reply to: Message 89 by Huntard
08-19-2009 4:33 PM

Re: Thanks for responding.

Hi Huntard,

Huntard writes:

Uhm, it's quite clear that's the one he meant. What is "the creation story" anyway? What do you mean by that if not the one from genesis in this context?

Creation that tuffers has said that science has proved to be false is the version found in Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

So how did science prove it to be false?

The only way is to prove how the universe was created. That is the origin of the universe. That is what Genesis posits.

My Hebrew teacher had a unique way of getting around this universe being infinite. He held Genesis 1:1 should have been translated "in the beginnings God created the heaven and the earth".

Amazing how one little letter can change things.

All of time is not infinity.

Is the universe infinite or not?

Expansion proved to Einstein that his infinite universe did not exist therefore the universe began to exist.

God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
	Message 89 by Huntard, posted 08-19-2009 4:33 PM		Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 91 by Huntard, posted 08-19-2009 5:57 PM		ICANT has replied

ICANT

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Message 92 of 111 (520185)
08-19-2009 6:21 PM

Reply to: Message 91 by Huntard
08-19-2009 5:57 PM

Re: Thanks for responding.

Hi Huntard,

Huntard writes:

Not just Gen 1:1. The entire account of genesis.

But all of God's creation took place in Genesis 1:1 except water creatures and modern man.

God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
	Message 91 by Huntard, posted 08-19-2009 5:57 PM		Huntard has replied

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	Message 93 by Huntard, posted 08-20-2009 1:55 AM	ICANT has not replied
	Message 95 by tuffers, posted 08-25-2009 12:23 PM	ICANT has replied

ICANT

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Posts: 6769

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Message 96 of 111 (521224)
08-26-2009 2:31 PM

Reply to: Message 95 by tuffers
08-25-2009 12:23 PM

Re: Thanks for responding.

Hi tuffers,

tuffers writes:

Anyway, you want to discuss my assertions about evolution.

No I have not asked you to discuss your assertions about evolution.

I did ask for scientific evidence that backs up your assertion you made Here

The assertion being "science has proven the creation story of the Bible to be fictional".

All I ask was for you to produce the evidence that proves the Bible story of creation to be fiction.

If you don't have any then just say so.

God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
	Message 95 by tuffers, posted 08-25-2009 12:23 PM		tuffers has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 97 by tuffers, posted 08-27-2009 5:07 AM	ICANT has replied
	Message 103 by flylike1, posted 04-11-2010 6:59 PM	ICANT has not replied

ICANT

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Posts: 6769

From: SSC

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Message 98 of 111 (521395)
08-27-2009 10:22 AM

Reply to: Message 97 by tuffers
08-27-2009 5:07 AM

Re: Thanks for responding.

Hi tuffers,

Good to hear from you.

tuffers writes:

I will take the trouble to compile a short list of some of the evidence for disproving the creation story of the Bible.

Just as a note.

All I am interested in is evidence concerning the universe begining to exist and life begining to exist. Nothing else is about creation.

Anything after they began to exist is about how they progressed after they existed until today.

I point this out so you won't waste a lot of time presenting how things have changed over time.

Which has nothing to do with how they began to exist.

God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
	Message 97 by tuffers, posted 08-27-2009 5:07 AM		tuffers has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 99 by onifre, posted 08-27-2009 1:08 PM	ICANT has replied
	Message 102 by tuffers, posted 08-28-2009 5:02 AM	ICANT has not replied

ICANT

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Posts: 6769

From: SSC

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Message 100 of 111 (521465)
08-27-2009 2:39 PM

Reply to: Message 99 by onifre
08-27-2009 1:08 PM

Re: Thanks for responding.

Hi oni,

I thought you wasn't talking to me.

onifre writes:

As far as we can tell, it has always existed upto a small scale that we can mathematically explain using the current theories. Beyond that point, nothing more can be said with certainty.

You don't know how it began to exist but you can still declare how it did not begin to exist.

onifre writes:

Life did not come into existance at the moment of the Big Bang,

Life began to exist in Genesis 1:1 so if you want to prove Genesis 1:1 false you would need to present the evidence for how it began to exist.

Since there is no scientific evidence for how either began to exist we can choose to believe whatever we desire.

Just don't tell me Genesis 1:1 has been proven false until your metaphysics becomes science.

God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
	Message 99 by onifre, posted 08-27-2009 1:08 PM		onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 101 by onifre, posted 08-27-2009 4:00 PM		ICANT has not replied

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