If you were God, what kind of God would you be?

you may have seen the discussion in the fundamentalist thread where this 'supposed' raping of women was commanded by Godthe fact is its not the case at allrape is clearly forbidden in the bible, in fact it holds the same punishment as a murderer which shows that God in no way permitted it.Read the account of Judges chpt 20 where a civil war broke out because a woman was raped and when the nation heard about it they took action against the isrealite men involved ..."take action by going against Gib′eah of Benjamin, in view of all the disgraceful folly that they did in Israel. 11Thus all the men of Israel were gathered against the city as one man, as allies."The mosaic law was clear that a rapist was to be put to deathDeut 22:25"If... the man grabbed hold of her and lay down with her, the man who lay down with her must also die by himself...because just as when a man rises up against his fellowman and indeed murders him, even a soul, so it is with this case"For anyone to say that God commanded men/soldiers to rape women is nothing but slander... perhaps this is why christians are not bothering with the question being posed. I wont be making any reply's to this post either because its been done to death in the other thread.

Interesting.All that is asked is if a creationist/fundamentalist would make a simple statement against rape.Strange that none can actually do it, obviously their false pride precludes them from defending morality.I was hoping you would be the first to officially renounce rape under all circumstances. Evidently my faith was misplaced.

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The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes.
Salman RushdieThis rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen

Hi Peg,I notice that nowhere in your post did you actually find it in yourself to say that rape is wrong or bother to utter the words "Don't rape Suzy". The nearest you get is claiming that the Bible forbids it, which it does only half-heartedly, presenting it alongside the notorious instances of divinely ordained rape.

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rape is clearly forbidden in the bible, in fact it holds the same punishment as a murderer which shows that God in no way permitted it.

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This is of course a lie.

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The mosaic law was clear that a rapist was to be put to death

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Don't waste your time telling me grotesque and facile lies. We all know what it says in the verse down the page; Of course marrying the victim is a little tricky when you've murdered them... I guess the punishments were not quite the same.

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For anyone to say that God commanded men/soldiers to rape women is nothing but slander... perhaps this is why christians are not bothering with the question being posed.

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Except that Bluejay and Bailey seem not to have had trouble responding.This kind of apologetic for rape (along with similar efforts for slavery and genocide) disgusts me, especially when it is being promoted by a woman. Please, spare me. If I want to vomit, I'll just stick my fingers down my throat. It's quicker.Mutate and Survive

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"A curious aspect of the theory of evolution is that everybody thinks he understands it." - Jacques Monod

and of course rape is wrong, its as wrong as murder and i'd like to see our laws tightened up in regard to it, unfortunately they are very laxGod had a death penalty because he considers it a vile act...Jesus loved and respected women because God loves and respects womenalthough i dont care for my own opinion, but when ppl start sprouting around that God commanded it and condones it, then i do feel the need to speak up. He doesnt condone it or command period and i feel sorry for anyone who believes this is the case.

I thought I asked you to stop lying. Maybe I imagined it.

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God had a death penalty because he considers it a vile act

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God had a death penalty for some rapes. In other cases, the "penalty" was to marry the victim. Hardly an appropriate response to a "vile act".The fact that you seem to think that "forbidden by God" and "morally wrong" are synonyms seems to me to be the root of the problem here.Mutate and Survive

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"A curious aspect of the theory of evolution is that everybody thinks he understands it." - Jacques Monod

The Deuteronomy verse you quoted doesn't reveal God's love for women at all.Here is the whole verse:

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Deut 22:25-27: But if it was out in the country that the man found the engaged girl and grabbed and raped her, only the man is to die, the man who raped her. Don't do anything to the girl; she did nothing wrong. This is similar to the case of a man who comes across his neighbor out in the country and murders him; when the engaged girl yelled out for help, there was no one around to hear or help her.

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Now why would you leave out the part about the woman being engaged? Maybe, because it changes the meaning of the passage and doesn't help out your argument?
It's not about the rape at all. It's about sex with another man's wife or betrothed. In fact the whole section is about inappropriate sex only with regards to how it affects the men associated with the women involved in the sex.

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Deut 22:13-21:13-19 If a man marries a woman, sleeps with her, and then turns on her, calling her a slut, giving her a bad name, saying, "I married this woman, but when I slept with her I discovered she wasn't a virgin," then the father and mother of the girl are to take her with the proof of her virginity to the town leaders at the gate. The father is to tell the leaders, "I gave my daughter to this man as wife and he turned on her, rejecting her. And now he has slanderously accused her, claiming that she wasn't a virgin. But look at this, here is the proof of my daughter's virginity." And then he is to spread out her bloodstained wedding garment before the leaders for their examination. The town leaders then are to take the husband, whip him, fine him a hundred pieces of silver, and give it to the father of the girl. The man gave a virgin girl of Israel a bad name. He has to keep her as his wife and can never divorce her. But if it turns out that the accusation is true and there is no evidence of the girl's virginity, the men of the town are to take her to the door of her father's house and stone her to death. She acted disgracefully in Israel. She lived like a whore while still in her parents' home. Purge the evil from among you.

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Embarrassment to her father, apparently.

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Deut 22:22: If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both must die. Purge that evil from Israel.

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Violated the husband's rights.

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Deut 22:23-24: If a man comes upon a virgin in town, a girl who is engaged to another man, and sleeps with her, take both of them to the town gate and stone them until they diethe girl because she didn't yell out for help in the town and the man because he raped her, violating the fiance of his neighbor. You must purge the evil from among you.

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Violated the rights of the girl's future husband. Notice the complete lack of concern for the girl herself.

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Deut 22:28-29: When a man comes upon a virgin who has never been engaged and grabs and rapes her and they are found out, the man who raped her has to give her father fifty pieces of silver. He has to marry her because he took advantage of her. And he can never divorce her.

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The father's rights were violated so he gets paid money while the girl gets the reward of being married for the rest of her life to the man who raped her. Sounds like a good way to get the woman of your dreams. Looks like Dr. Adequate has a stumbled on a method to get sex from Suzy for a long time to come.Still...I don't think he should rape her. I agree that it is morally repugnant despite the tacit condoning by God to use it as an engagement announcement.And...to give, at least, lip service to the OP....I would be a God who provides laws that protect women and men equally.

In reply to the earlier hypothetical; Add another to the growing list of those who say "Absolutely not!" Anyone who needs to consult an ancient book to work out the answer to this question cannot possibly hold any sort of moral compass at all. And to return to the OP - if I were god then I would ensure all humans would have this inbuilt moral compass so they didn't need to constantly seek guidance that i pervesely refuse so often to answer.My very first post here by the way; the subject matter incensed me into action....

One final thought on the god that most at the EVC Froum have chosen to be.

Not willing to comment about Suzy?

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

There's also the nearby Deuteronomy 20:10-14: --Percy

I can imagine myself as a god just as well as I can imagine what my life was like before I was born. To imagine the cosmos as having been created is just as possible as my previously mentioned imagination.

I would say: "Don't rape Suzy!" It is morally, an ethically wrong.I mean seriously, you could probably find a hooker that looks just like her.
(Christian)

Hi, Peg. I think this is a strange example to choose, because, when that particular war was concluded, and only 600 men and no women of the tribe of Benjamin remained, the Israelites didn't want one tribe to go extinct. So, this was their solution (the very next chapter):

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So they instructed the Benjamites, saying, "Go and hide in the vineyards and watch. When the girls of Shiloh come out to join in the dancing, then rush from the vineyards and each of you seize a wife from the girls of Shiloh and go to the land of Benjamin.

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-Judges 21:20-21 (NIV)

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It's not exactly rape in the the most technical sense of the word, but distinguishing this from rape takes a lot of unscrupulous hair-splitting.Edited by Bluejay, : Added parenthetical.

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-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus)Darwin loves you.

One non-final thought on the God that a minority of posters on this forum have chosen to be: Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.