Heaven: How to Get In

Hi everyoneI've been thinking about the nature of heaven, and realized that I do not know exactly how one gets in. Any answer I try to get is usually just a slippery contradiction. So please, how do you get into heaven in your faith. PS please do not get into an argument over what heaven is. I just want the requirements for getting in.Edited by Adminnemooseus, : "Redded" the last sentence.

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I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
- Stephen Roberts

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I'm a polyatheist - there are many gods I don't believe in
- Dan Foutes

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"In the beginning, the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has widely been considered as a bad move."
- Douglas Adams

Thread copied here from the Heaven: How to Get In thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

I suspect it would be the case that there is only one necessary and sufficient condition: After you are dead, the people who are still alive and who knew you (or know about you) believe that you must be in heaven. This would be the case for any and every religion or denomination that subscribes to a belief in heaven.The particular actions, habits and/or personality traits that people consider to be criterial for deciding whether you (the dead person they knew) are now in heaven will of course vary from one culture/sect to another, and even from one person to another within a given culture or sect: it depends on whether you've killed enough of the right people, whether you've been prosperous enough, whether you've been generous / kind / responsible / punctual, what you ate or whether you had what folks considered to be proper hygiene, grooming and dress.Whatever... but if there is a consensus among the people you leave behind, and they all don't think you're in heaven, you simply can't be there. No way.{AbE} I'm no expert on this, but I think there may be some creeds that have a concept of "eternal afterlife" yet don't really posit more than one place to go. For subscribers to that sort of concept (surely there are some), all you have to do is die, and everybody gets the same deal. But I understand that the question for this thread is not addressed to such folks, because it implies a presupposed alternative, "... as opposed to not going to heaven."Edited by Otto Tellick, : (added last paragraph)

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autotelic adj. (of an entity or event) having within itself the purpose of its existence or happening.

Hi Teapot, "You must be born again." JesusGod Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

I think the OP's request was for something a bit more specific, ICANT.Given a question like "how does one get from A to B?", you seem to be giving the answer "By getting there." Well, duh.But this type of answer shows exactly what the problem is. You know that you're born again because you know it. Of course, maybe you go through some periods between now and deathbed where you might doubt or wonder whether you really are saved, or whether you've relapsed to a failed condition. The bottom line is, you will not and cannot know whether you'll get in until you get in (or not), and of course, at that point, no one else has any real basis for knowing what really happened to you.It's the perfect weasel: irrefutable because its unverifiable. I can assert with as much certainty as you that I'll be going to the same heaven you're going to, even though I'm not working on the same criteria as you are. You can argue all you want, but you can't prove me wrong -- not ever. How far would you go in trying?Anyway, if you can provide anything more detailed or specific about your criteria for entry, it would be considerably more useful than "get born again." Thanks.

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autotelic adj. (of an entity or event) having within itself the purpose of its existence or happening.

Until you can determine which religious framework you're referring to, no answer can be given.This is part of the problem with Pascal's Wager: Which god are you supposed to believe in? There are many out there with mutually contradictory requirements. Therefore, simply "believing in god" isn't a guarantee of anything since your belief in the wrong god will send you to hell.Until you know which heaven you're trying to get into, you won't know how to get there.

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

As per our other discussion, the suggestion is that the mechanism of salvation is operating wrt to yourself at this very moment - the outcome of which has yet to be decided. This, from 2 Thessalonians 2, gives some insight into the criterion by which your salvation will be decided upon.

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10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

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It is being suggested in that other thread that you are surrounded by good (truth) and evil (lies) and that you chose (love) both one and other millions of times over you life. It is also suggested that the mechanism of salvation establishes which you have your heart set on in a final sense. The best that can be suggested is that if you want to be saved then don't refuse to love the truth - for if you don't; refuse to love / suppress / resist / deny the truth to the point of damnation then the truth itself will work on you and lead you to salvation. Don't worry that you yourself can't establish yet what the truth is - your not being able to do that doesn't alter the fact that;- you are exposed to it by God
- you can make choices for/against it
- it can cause change to occur in you and lead you to salvation.In practice I don't think you can influence things consciously - this affair is carried out primarily at heart-response level, not at conscious level - although you will be conscious of your suppression/non-suppression of truth if you observe yourself closely enough.Edited by iano, : No reason given.Edited by iano, : No reason given.Edited by iano, : No reason given.

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For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

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So who does God delude? I know many (probably including yourself, based on what I remember) that would say they lived a life "delighting in wickedness" before being "saved". Was God deluding you, and then he decided to stop? Or did you see through the delusion? Or were you one of the lucky ones that was never deluded and there are those who are doomed to be forever deluded?Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.

The delusion referred to here would, I think, be the intellectually/emotionally satisfying alternative to God which all unbelievers wrap themselves in. An example of which would be the naturalistic view of the universe which excludes the need for God - although declaring 'not-yet-known' aspects of the explanation. God, I think, permits this to be so as to support the unbeliever in his heart-sourced unbelief. It's not unfair of God to do so - the choice against must be as enabled as the choice for if the choice is to be a fair and balanced one.The verses' reference to those who delight in wickedness refers, I'd argue, to the final response of the person. Their last word on the subject as it were - at whatever point God gives up his pursuit of them. You are right to say that folk delight in wickedness at all points along the way but at those points their heart isn't fully hardened and they delight in truth too. They are works-in-progress, still malleable clay whereas the ones in the Thessalonians passage are oven-hardened into their final, lost form.Edited by iano, : change over-hardened to oven-hardened

Name: Stile
Faith as described by others, and likely basically correct in most cases: Atheist
Faith as described by self: Unknown/Don't care.How to get to Heaven: Be honest, and try your best to be a good person.Note: "Good" is not up for debate in a whatever-anyone-wants-it-to-be sort of way. It is, however, up for debate to find out whatever the best "Good" actually is, which is difficult with no standard to measure it against. The best I've found so far is based on the almost universally accepted idea that laughing and smiling is good while crying and hurting is bad. Formalized as:

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Good = an action by a being that positively increases the inner-feelings of the being acted upon.

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As derived from this old thread: Message 1Therefore, "being good" involves thinking about the consequences of your actions and trying not to do anything which results in harm to others as much as possible. We must also remember that good/bad cannot be determined 100% before the action (although informed-estimations are certainly possible), it can only be determined 100% after the action... when we can determine the result upon whoever is affected. This crucial point removes the ability to manipulate or corrupt the system of morality. Also, once one agrees and accepts that "laughing is good and crying is bad," then the system of morality becomes objective as the results of actions on others can be objectively obtained.If we are able to live our lives being honest and good, then there is no just God who can condemn us for any rational reason. And therefore, thoughts of "what must happen to enter Heaven?" become useless and irrelevent. If there is a positive-heaven, then we've done everything possible (if "doing anything" is even a condition), and been open to all possible entry ways (by remaining honest about reality).In following this system, we also have the added bonus of not wasting our current life on anything possibly not-real if it so happens that Heaven doesn't even exist anyways.

As ICANT saidYou must be born again.Jesus said Most truly I say to you, Unless anyone is born from water and spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Do not marvel because I told you, You people must be born again. John 3:5, 7

Hi Stile, and thanks for your answer. However, your idea of an ideal test is obviously not what others have. To everyone, of any (abrahamic) religon, do you get into heaven through faith alone, acts, baptism, or any combination of the above. Thank you.

you get into heaven by being chosen by GodWhen Jesus was baptised, the holy spirit descended upon him...this corresponds to what he said:"unless you are born from spirit and water you cannot see the kingdom of heaven"Who gave him holy spirit? It was God who gave him holy spirit thus indicating that he had accepted Jesus to enter heaven. Jesus later did this after his death, he returned to the heavens in spirit form.So it is with those who are born again, they are baptized and chosen by God, he gives them holy spirit and when they die, they will go to heaven. However, they must continue on in a faithful course of life devoted to God, if they ever became unfaithful, they would loose their hope of heavenly life.

Hi Peg,So you get into heaven through faith, work, and baptism? That's alot. By the way, does "chosen by God" mean predestination?

i wouldnt call it predestination for the reason that if a christian becomes unfaithful, they will loose their heavenly callingbut they do have to remain faithful until death, if they dont, they loose out.

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Revelation 2:10
10Do not be afraid of the things you are about to suffer. Look! The Devil will keep on throwing some of YOU into prison that YOU may be fully put to the test, and that YOU may have tribulation ten days. Prove yourself faithful even to death, and I will give you the crown of life.

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2Timothy 2: 11Faithful is the saying: Certainly if we died together, we shall also live together; 12if we go on enduring, we shall also rule together as kings; if we deny, he also will deny us; 13if we are unfaithful,

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So it can't be predestination becuase that implies that no matter what their course is, they will get into heaven. Its as the apostles said...if we are faithful and go on enduring they will rule as kings.