What I have noticed about these debates...

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The "Christian" schools; on the other hand, do invite discussion
and try to explain the origin of evolution and attempt an honest
balance.

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Yeah, just like Fox News, right?I wonder what happens when those good "Christian" school instructors come across some evidence that contradicts their interpretation of what nature is "supposed" to be like according to the Bible?Do you think they present it to the children, or do you think they might just skip over that part?

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1. The law of the United States of America was (if you read a bit of history) founded on the principals found in the Ten Commandments.

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No, the law in the US is not based upon the ten commandments.If it were, it would be illegal in the US to worship any other god other than the "One True God" (TM) of the Bible.That is the first commandment, you know.Actually, only a couple of the commandments have anything to do with our laws, but they are pretty universal; don't kill, steal, etc.Most of the Biblical commandments have to do with worship, creating graven images, etc.The US law is based upon the US Constitution, and in particular, individual human rights."We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."It's "We, the PEOPLE". Not "We, the Christian people".

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2. Muslims who read the Koran (that you mentioned) also support the Ten Commandments as part of their religion.

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You missed the point.The point is that it is clearly a violation of our constitutional rights to choose our own religious path when our government begins to promote a certain religion over all others in our publicly-funded institutions.How about we enshrine a copy of the Bhagavad-Gita, or the Sacred Writings of the Bah? Faith, or the writings of the Buddha in a public government building?How would you feel about that?Here is the first ammendment of our Constitution, emphasis added by me:"Amendment ICongress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."[This message has been edited by schrafinator, 08-26-2003]

Creation science is rather new. When I attended school the only book
that made waves was THE GENESIS FLOOD, by John C. Whitcomb, Jr., 1961.Evolution had, by that time, been weaving a scholastic trail since the
1930's. The 1964 decision to block public displays of religion WAS
the icing on the cake that made fundamental theologists aware that
science was now entirely in the hands of evolutionists, and that ALL
puplic school children would have little if any exposure to Biblical
influence (unless the parent made the effort).To understand the problem let us look at a simple problem. The
height of the Alps. An evolutionistic science teacher would say that
there is not enough water to have covered them by a FLOOD. What is
lacking, is proof that the ALPS were that high prior to the FLOOD.
This the evolutionist will not bother to discuss.This will sound silly but makes a valid point. A dish is created 100
years ago. The dish is then dropped and breaks into hundreds of
pieces. Now let's say all the pieces are sweeped into a pile----
how old is the pile? If we examine the pieces, we might prove that
the glaze was of a type used 100 years ago; however, that doesn't
tell me how long that pile has been sitting on the floor.If GOD created an "established" world in 6 days, what would it look
like? The indications are that Adam looked a 30 year old man, at
least he was not created a baby. We do know that Jesus started his
ministry at age 30 and he is comparied to Adam.While Science can only measure what it sees, religion has always
depended on revelation. Presently, some scientists are trying
to exclude the possibility of revelation and replacing it with opinion and humanistic reasoning. It will take years of research and
scientific study to establish a Creationistic view that can rebuff
the damage caused by those bent on totally a materialistic view
of why we exist scientifically. I am not a scientist: however, I am
aware that ALL the answers to questions are not only for them to
answer. This is another reason why I am a Christian. it answers
the question WHY?

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To understand the problem let us look at a simple problem. The height of the Alps. An evolutionistic science teacher would say that there is not enough water to have covered them by a FLOOD. What is lacking, is proof that the ALPS were that high prior to the FLOOD.
This the evolutionist will not bother to discuss.

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AC, it's only creationists that have a problem with the height of the Alps. YOU have to explain to us how mountains that high can grow all over the world in a span of only four thousand years without someone taking notice. That process was not witnessed by anyone on the face of the Earth.Evolutionists have plate tectonics and millions of years to make it happen. NOT a problem for us and definitely not one we are afraid to discuss.If you would like to discuss these "problems," there are many here who would gladly oblige you.

Is this a cut n paste from another site?If the work is not your own, you need to provide the source and the author, otherwise you are breaking forum guidelines.

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Evolution had, by that time, been weaving a scholastic trail since the 1930's.

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Considering that Evolution is science, and is supported by evidence, why wouldn't it make it's way into supbic school science classrooms?

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The 1964 decision to block public displays of religion WAS the icing on the cake that made fundamental theologists aware that science was now entirely in the hands of evolutionists, and that ALL puplic school children would have little if any exposure to Biblical influence (unless the parent made the effort).

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Um, isn't religious education something that the US government has NEVER had the right to dictate to it's citizens?

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To understand the problem let us look at a simple problem. The
height of the Alps. An evolutionistic science teacher would say that
there is not enough water to have covered them by a FLOOD. What is
lacking, is proof that the ALPS were that high prior to the FLOOD.
This the evolutionist will not bother to discuss.

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Um, false.We can measure uplift rates and conclude that the alps were very similar in height a few thousand years ago that they are now.

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This will sound silly but makes a valid point. A dish is created 100 years ago. The dish is then dropped and breaks into hundreds of pieces. Now let's say all the pieces are sweeped into a pile----how old is the pile? If we examine the pieces, we might prove thatthe glaze was of a type used 100 years ago; however, that doesn't
tell me how long that pile has been sitting on the floor.

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No, but if the pile of broken shards is found in the context of an archelogical dig in which it is located under 100 feet of dirt, that tells you something, eh?

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If GOD created an "established" world in 6 days, what would it look like? The indications are that Adam looked a 30 year old man, at
least he was not created a baby.

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What indications are those? Do you have Adam's skeleton?

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We do know that Jesus started his ministry at age 30 and he is comparied to Adam.

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This is relevant why???

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While Science can only measure what it sees, religion has always depended on revelation.

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Exactly.That's why they are not testable, and therefore are not scientifically valid.

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Presently, some scientists are trying to exclude the possibility of revelation and replacing it with opinion and humanistic reasoning.

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Um, revelation has never been a part of modern science, and it was only when science broke free from the interference of the Church that we began to truly gain understanding of nature in leaps and bounds.Opinion is not the main power of science. Logic, evidence, and repeatability is.

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It will take years of research and scientific study to establish a Creationistic view that can rebuff the damage caused by those bent on totally a materialistic view of why we exist scientifically.

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Schience has NEVER attempted to answer the question of "Why we exist."Science describes how things work. Philosophy answers the "why".

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I am not a scientist: however, I am aware that ALL the answers to questions are not only for them to answer.

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Science seeks to provide naturalistic explanations for naturalistic phenomena.That's it.

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This is another reason why I am a Christian. it answers
the question WHY?

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Great, but why then do you reject science's explanation of the HOW when your own two eyes can observe what thousands of scientists have observed?

Hi, AC!Was this message addressed to anyone in particular? Please see This Thread.------------------

--	Percy
	EvC Forum Administrator

Admin:No, it wasn't. It there any reason why you seem to give me so
much trouble with my postings? It seems unresonable to have to type
everyting two times, and in a manor that suits your tastes. If
the idea is to eliminate certain opinions, then you are doing an
excellent job. This has to be the worst forum I've ever been on.
I can only believe that there may be a motive for this.If you no longer wish me to post here, please tell me so and I will
go away and you can proceed with your mutual admiration society
without salt and pepper.

A Christian,You have questions to answer & assertions to support.Mark------------------
"I can't prove creationism, but they can't prove evolution. It is [also] a religion, so it should not be taught....Christians took over the school board and voted in creationism. That can be done in any school district anywhere, and it ought to be done." Says Kent "consistent" Hovind in "Unmasking the False Religion of Evolution Chapter 6."

Mark24:I am not a scientist. Dr James Kennedy is speaking out against
evolution on Coral Ridge Ministries program on Sundays in most
locals. If you REALLY want names and answers tune the show in and
watch, and if not ---- I guess you'll be left wanting...

A Christian, Thought not, your claims can be taken as nothing more than hyperbole. You don't have the slightest clue about what you write, so why did you write it?Mark------------------
"I can't prove creationism, but they can't prove evolution. It is [also] a religion, so it should not be taught....Christians took over the school board and voted in creationism. That can be done in any school district anywhere, and it ought to be done." Says Kent "consistent" Hovind in "Unmasking the False Religion of Evolution Chapter 6."

Hi A-Christian,In future, could you please follow the forum rules. I now make it that you have disregarded rules 1 through to 7.Please read the rules and try and keep your posts within these directions.Many Thanks for your assistance.AdminBrian

Because the data was presented during the James Kennedy Program.
What makes you think you're so great. I'm not impressed with
most of what evolutionists THINK they know. It is what they
want everyone else to accept is what bothers me. I enjoy the
way evolutionist belittle those that disagree with them. Don't
you know that only make you look vular and cheap.

AdminBrian:You really are a wet blanket. Why not just close this topic, too?
That would solve YOUR problem.

There is no restriction on point of view here. You are catching the attention of administrators because you are violating the Forum Guidelines, and because you're ignoring requests to use the appropriate reply button (which, by the way, you just failed to use again). If you need clarification about how you are violating the guidelines please let us know and we will provide it. If you need help using the features of EvC Forum just let us know and we will provide it.But if you're not responsive to administrator requests then your posting privileges will be suspended.------------------

--	Percy
	EvC Forum Administrator

I guess I've seen enough. Your posting privileges are suspended for guideline violations and for ignoring administrator requests. Your posting privileges can be restored by sending email to Admin expressing a willingness to follow the guidelines and administrator requests in the future.I hope we see you back again soon. All the best!------------------

--	Percy
	EvC Forum Administrator