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Author | Topic: What I have noticed about these debates... | |||||||||||||||||||
mark24 Member (Idle past 5220 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
Ten-sai,
quote: So, if the first complex cells were designed, could evolution then occur, a la Behe? Mark ------------------Occam's razor is not for shaving with.
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5220 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
Ten-sai,
Regarding the "god-of-the-gaps fallacy." It is essentially an argumentum ad ignorantium, used by people, usually theists (hence "god" of the gaps) in an attempt to show they are right & science is wrong because the scientific theory in question has knowledge gaps, therefore it is rational to conclude that god is responsible for said gap. Mark ------------------Occam's razor is not for shaving with.
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5220 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
Ten-sai,
quote: Again, what stops life evolving after cellular life has been designed? It would seem from an ID point of view, certainly ID protaganists such as Behe, that the answer is nothing. Hence, abiogenesis is not the "logical imperative of evolution" as you claim. Mark ------------------Occam's razor is not for shaving with.
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5220 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
wj,
Interestingly, GB & East Germany (showing the studies age) have the highest % acceptance of evolution AND at the same time the lowest % belief in the bible. Yet the correlation to a belief in God doesn't seem to follow. It's the bible & evolution, not religion & evolution that appear to be the oil & water, a gross generalisation I confess. Check Russia & the Phillipines, for example. Mark ------------------Occam's razor is not for shaving with.
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5220 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
Cybereagle,
I plan to read Charles Darwin's book for the express purpose of being able to know everything evolutionists think. You're going to have to read a lot more than that, my friend. Genetics, population genetics, palaeontology, molecular systematics, cladistics, comparative anatomy etc etc. Evolutionary theory has come a long, long way since Darwin penned Origins. This is why creationists find it so easy to misunderstand the ToE, they haven't exposed themselves to the evidence & placed it within a logical framework. Mark ------------------"I can't prove creationism, but they can't prove evolution. It is [also] a religion, so it should not be taught....Christians took over the school board and voted in creationism. That can be done in any school district anywhere, and it ought to be done." Says Kent "consistent" Hovind in "Unmasking the False Religion of Evolution Chapter 6."
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5220 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
Other way around, mate.
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5220 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
Percy,
Fair enough, but what's good for the goose... Mark ------------------"I can't prove creationism, but they can't prove evolution. It is [also] a religion, so it should not be taught....Christians took over the school board and voted in creationism. That can be done in any school district anywhere, and it ought to be done." Says Kent "consistent" Hovind in "Unmasking the False Religion of Evolution Chapter 6."
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5220 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
AC,
Well, it seems to me that there is no proof of any intermediate species development for the Cambrian explosion when fully developed species just POP into existance. Do you mean Phyla, or species, or any other taxonomic rank? Do you even unsderstand the argument you are making? Make your claim as clear as possible, start a new thread, & we'll have at it!
The way the vast majority of all fossiles formed was very quickly under extreem pressure and in mud & water. ? Er, that's not what the evidence suggests at all. Evidence please.
The charts that appear in science books that demonstrate evolution through the the embryonic stages are actually a hoax. Haeckels drawings were fake, but the details were true. Human embryo's have tails, mammalian jaw bones begin as several components, the bones in question migrate to the ear region where they become the malleus & incus, as indicated in the fossil record, etc, etc.
Scientific study and experimentation belongs in a science class. Evolution belongs in a "religious" class under belief systems. True, but only if evolution fails to meet the standards of the scientific method, which it actually DOES meet. So sorry, religion remains mumbo jumbo, & evolution remains science.
ALL traces of DNA will disappear under adverse conditions or within 8 THOUSAND years (whatever comes 1st). You gave one value, 8k years. That comes first AND last, surely? What was the other option? DNA, provided it doesn't become hydrolysed & oxidised can survive a lot longer, even if it is only fragmentory. Mark [This message has been edited by mark24, 08-25-2003]
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5220 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
Hi Percy,
I guessed as much, trust me, I'm not that paranoid, yet! When they catch me, then it'll be a different matter.... Mark ------------------"I can't prove creationism, but they can't prove evolution. It is [also] a religion, so it should not be taught....Christians took over the school board and voted in creationism. That can be done in any school district anywhere, and it ought to be done." Says Kent "consistent" Hovind in "Unmasking the False Religion of Evolution Chapter 6."
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5220 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
jcgirl92,
This is what the Genesis account calls a "kind." Genesis 1:21So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. Genesis 1:24And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. Genesis 1:25God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. But none of the above are definitions. We are told by creationists that "kinds" exist, but since neither they nor the bible aren't defining what a kind is, it's impossible to independently verify. The truth is, creationists know this, & the moment they stick their heads over the parapet it's going to get shot off. Whatever criteria with which they choose to define kinds, I predict it can be shown that the same criteria shows with equal validity that kinds themselves are related. The conclusion is that biblical kinds are exactly that, non-scientifically supported groups of organisms purported by a religious book. Mark ------------------"I can't prove creationism, but they can't prove evolution. It is [also] a religion, so it should not be taught....Christians took over the school board and voted in creationism. That can be done in any school district anywhere, and it ought to be done." Says Kent "consistent" Hovind in "Unmasking the False Religion of Evolution Chapter 6."
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5220 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
jcgirl92,
I was trying to take a few ideas and put them together to give an idea of what a "kind" is. I still don't see what the big issue is here! I should have been clearer, although "kind" is purported to be what you describe, actual kinds haven't been identified, & would be rubbished the instant they were claimed, most likely using the same evidence that was used to claim a group was a kind. We still don't know what a kind looks like, & how it was inferred to be in the first place. Mark ------------------"I can't prove creationism, but they can't prove evolution. It is [also] a religion, so it should not be taught....Christians took over the school board and voted in creationism. That can be done in any school district anywhere, and it ought to be done." Says Kent "consistent" Hovind in "Unmasking the False Religion of Evolution Chapter 6." [This message has been edited by mark24, 08-26-2003]
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5220 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
A Christian,
You have questions to answer & assertions to support. Mark ------------------"I can't prove creationism, but they can't prove evolution. It is [also] a religion, so it should not be taught....Christians took over the school board and voted in creationism. That can be done in any school district anywhere, and it ought to be done." Says Kent "consistent" Hovind in "Unmasking the False Religion of Evolution Chapter 6."
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5220 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
A Christian,
I am not a scientist. Dr James Kennedy is speaking out against evolution on Coral Ridge Ministries program on Sundays in most locals. If you REALLY want names and answers tune the show in and watch, and if not ---- I guess you'll be left wanting... Thought not, your claims can be taken as nothing more than hyperbole. You don't have the slightest clue about what you write, so why did you write it? Mark ------------------"I can't prove creationism, but they can't prove evolution. It is [also] a religion, so it should not be taught....Christians took over the school board and voted in creationism. That can be done in any school district anywhere, and it ought to be done." Says Kent "consistent" Hovind in "Unmasking the False Religion of Evolution Chapter 6."
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5220 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
A Christian,
Because the data was presented during the James Kennedy Program. What makes you think you're so great. Not that you'll post here again, but if you are going to make assertions you are going to have to support them, & "I saw a TV program about" it isn't good enough. Mark ------------------"I can't prove creationism, but they can't prove evolution. It is [also] a religion, so it should not be taught....Christians took over the school board and voted in creationism. That can be done in any school district anywhere, and it ought to be done." Says Kent "consistent" Hovind in "Unmasking the False Religion of Evolution Chapter 6."
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