Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,819 Year: 3,076/9,624 Month: 921/1,588 Week: 104/223 Day: 2/13 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   A Modern Day Miracle Man - Establishes the Supernatural Realm
Cedre
Member (Idle past 1490 days)
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 16 of 297 (525708)
09-24-2009 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Theodoric
09-24-2009 10:41 AM


Re: A Challenge
quote:
There is no evidence, purely anecdote. Do you even know what an original source is?
If video evidence and eye-witnesses thousands of them to boot don't count as evidence for you, then there is no point in me having this exchange with you, I want to chat with people who are reasonable and make reasonable demands I don't know what more you're after sir/ma'am. Clearly your definition of evidence is radically different from the definition the rest of us accept. for example eye-witnesses are a form of evidence because he/she can describe what happened since he/she was present at an event and saw it with his/her own eyes.
quote:
quote:
Is that the best you got?
quote:
that the best you got?

I wasn't trying to jeer at you or anything with this remark I was merely expressing the impression I you have given me about yourself.
Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Theodoric, posted 09-24-2009 10:41 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


(1)
Message 17 of 297 (525709)
09-24-2009 10:51 AM


Many who have come to the church possessed by evil spirits are said to be delivered following prayer from T. B. Joshua.
I really did laugh out loud. It's not 1400 AD any more, Cedre, even in Nigeria.

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Cedre, posted 09-24-2009 10:56 AM Coragyps has not replied

  
Cedre
Member (Idle past 1490 days)
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 18 of 297 (525710)
09-24-2009 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Coragyps
09-24-2009 10:51 AM


quote:
I really did laugh out loud. It's not 1400 AD any more, Cedre, even in Nigeria.
Your laughing doesn't take anything away from the evidence it only displays your inability to account for what happened, you have been arrested by the evidence and all you can do now is laugh and jeer, typical atheist approach, I'm not at all suprised.
Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Coragyps, posted 09-24-2009 10:51 AM Coragyps has not replied

  
Perdition
Member (Idle past 3238 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 19 of 297 (525711)
09-24-2009 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Cedre
09-24-2009 5:09 AM


I can heal people just by touching them and speaking the name of their affliction 15 times. 100s of people have seen me do this, and if you just ask them, they will tell you it's true. One such person was Bill Bardum of Madison, WI. He had an inoperable brain tumor, and doctors had given him less than a week. In desperation, his daughter told me to come see him, and despite Bill's scepticism, I was able to heal him. His next medical appointment surprised all of the doctors, they couldn't explain his miraculous healing, ascribing it to some type of spontaneous remission, but he called me that day to thank me, he knew what had really happened.
I can also make predictions. Just last week, I asked everyone who knows me to try and help me stem the tide of a massive dust storm I knew was going to hit Sydney. I got a group of 132 people together and we all chanted "Sydney, dust storm" 15 times. The dust storm happened just as I predicted, but we were able to amke sure no one died in it.
Now, to prove to you doubters out there, I will give you a new prediction I received this morning. On Saturday, many will die as the result of a large natural disaster, this time by water instead of dust. I will do all I can to prevent it, but I fear it's too strong even for me, but if you can send me a small donation so I can rent out the local convention center so I can try and get as many people together as I can to chant, perhaps we can save these people!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Cedre, posted 09-24-2009 5:09 AM Cedre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Cedre, posted 09-24-2009 11:06 AM Perdition has replied
 Message 32 by Larni, posted 09-24-2009 12:07 PM Perdition has replied

  
Cedre
Member (Idle past 1490 days)
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 20 of 297 (525712)
09-24-2009 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Perdition
09-24-2009 11:00 AM


Quit messing around and deal with my points
quote:
I can heal people just by touching them and speaking the name of their affliction 15 times. 100s of people have seen me do this, and if you just ask them, they will tell you it's true. One such person was Bill Bardum of Madison, WI. He had an inoperable brain tumor, and doctors had given him less than a week. In desperation, his daughter told me to come see him, and despite Bill's scepticism, I was able to heal him. His next medical appointment surprised all of the doctors, they couldn't explain his miraculous healing, ascribing it to some type of spontaneous remission, but he called me that day to thank me, he knew what had really happened.
I can also make predictions. Just last week, I asked everyone who knows me to try and help me stem the tide of a massive dust storm I knew was going to hit Sydney. I got a group of 132 people together and we all chanted "Sydney, dust storm" 15 times. The dust storm happened just as I predicted, but we were able to amke sure no one died in it.
Now, to prove to you doubters out there, I will give you a new prediction I received this morning. On Saturday, many will die as the result of a large natural disaster, this time by water instead of dust. I will do all I can to prevent it, but I fear it's too strong even for me, but if you can send me a small donation so I can rent out the local convention center so I can try and get as many people together as I can to chant, perhaps we can save these people!
Your ranting does nothing to the evidence before you, deal with facts and please give up the shenanigans. The prophecies made by TB Joshua not only are more specific compared to your generic prophecy but are documented and recoded even by such trusted sources as Wikipedia. So amazing are this mans miracles that even Time magazine had to cover him in an article.
Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.
Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.
Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Perdition, posted 09-24-2009 11:00 AM Perdition has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Perdition, posted 09-24-2009 11:11 AM Cedre has replied
 Message 45 by Theodoric, posted 09-24-2009 2:03 PM Cedre has replied

  
Perdition
Member (Idle past 3238 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 21 of 297 (525713)
09-24-2009 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Cedre
09-24-2009 11:06 AM


Re: Quit messing around and deal with my points
such trusted sources as Wikipedia.
In general I trust Wikipedia, but you do realize that all it takes for someone to change a Wikipedia entry is...internet access, right? What makes Wikipedia a potentially good source is that people who actually know can gop in and fix things that are wrong, and that it asks for links to original sources. So, as have been asked for many times, what are the original sources? Otherwise, all you have is hearsay.
So, disprove my mystical abilities, I dare you. As I said, I've had hundreds of eye witnesses, do you think they're all lying?
{AbE} Besides, I said specifically, dust storm and Sydney. Do you know how often severe dust storms ravage Sydney? Not very often, especially one as bad as this. It's been 70 years since one was this bad, so the odds of me just picking it are slight.
Edited by Perdition, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Cedre, posted 09-24-2009 11:06 AM Cedre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Cedre, posted 09-24-2009 11:17 AM Perdition has replied

  
Cedre
Member (Idle past 1490 days)
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 22 of 297 (525716)
09-24-2009 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Perdition
09-24-2009 11:11 AM


Re: Quit messing around and deal with my points
quote:
In general I trust Wikipedia, but you do realize that all it takes for someone to change a Wikipedia entry is...internet access, right? What makes Wikipedia a potentially good source is that people who actually know can gop in and fix things that are wrong, and that it asks for links to original sources. So, as have been asked for many times, what are the original sources? Otherwise, all you have is hearsay.
I'm not going to present anymore evidence that you will treat just like the current evidence, with contempt, and by the way I'm not basing my case on hearsay, but on video evidence, and on the witness of thousands of eye-witnesses. Deal with the evidence its before you and its screaming out loud and clear. Regarding your so-called abilities where is your evidence do you have it recored on video did thousands of people witness your prophecies on live television and in person. are you cited by such sources as Wikipedia and news articles and Time magazine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Perdition, posted 09-24-2009 11:11 AM Perdition has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Coragyps, posted 09-24-2009 11:26 AM Cedre has replied
 Message 25 by Perdition, posted 09-24-2009 11:38 AM Cedre has replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 23 of 297 (525717)
09-24-2009 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Cedre
09-24-2009 11:17 AM


Re: Quit messing around and deal with my points
Regarding your so-called abilities where is your evidence do you have it recored on video did thousands of people witness your prophecies on live television and in person.
I saw him do it all with my third eye - the astral one. But I lost the videotape.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Cedre, posted 09-24-2009 11:17 AM Cedre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Cedre, posted 09-24-2009 11:36 AM Coragyps has not replied

  
Cedre
Member (Idle past 1490 days)
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 24 of 297 (525720)
09-24-2009 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Coragyps
09-24-2009 11:26 AM


Re: Quit messing around and deal with my points
quote:
I saw him do it all with my third eye - the astral one. But I lost the videotape.
I'm enjoying the wit that is hatching up in this chat and easing up the tension. But please I plead with you to take a honest look at the evidence I have presented for my case, I too used to be skeptical of the miracles and prophecies made by this man that is before I had access to Emmanuel TV and for myself saw what goes on in this church and I also noticed the great pain taken by the SCOAN to verify that they are the real deal. Making sure to televise every prophecy live, and everyone that is prayed for and receives their healing is visited regularly and their improvement is noted. also I have friends who have visited the SCOAN and have told me that the miracles are undeniably real.
Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.
Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Coragyps, posted 09-24-2009 11:26 AM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by PaulK, posted 09-24-2009 12:02 PM Cedre has replied

  
Perdition
Member (Idle past 3238 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 25 of 297 (525721)
09-24-2009 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Cedre
09-24-2009 11:17 AM


Re: Quit messing around and deal with my points
Oh, so if I got people together, filmed them chanting, and had each of them say they had seen me do these things, then you'd believe me? Give me about a week and I can have that for you. I can also make a Wikipedia entry on myself and have it claim all that I've said and more. Again, if you wait about a week, I can have it for you. If I have that, will you suddenly believe me?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Cedre, posted 09-24-2009 11:17 AM Cedre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Cedre, posted 09-24-2009 11:43 AM Perdition has replied

  
Cedre
Member (Idle past 1490 days)
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 26 of 297 (525722)
09-24-2009 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Perdition
09-24-2009 11:38 AM


Re: Quit messing around and deal with my points
quote:
Oh, so if I got people together, filmed them chanting, and had each of them say they had seen me do these things, then you'd believe me? Give me about a week and I can have that for you. I can also make a Wikipedia entry on myself and have it claim all that I've said and more. Again, if you wait about a week, I can have it for you. If I have that, will you suddenly believe me?
Are you suggesting a conspiracy of some sort. Are you suggesting that all the random curios folk who visit the SCOAN from all over the world are a part of some conspiracy and are you suggesting that the thousands of viewers are also in on the conspiracy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Perdition, posted 09-24-2009 11:38 AM Perdition has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Perdition, posted 09-24-2009 11:50 AM Cedre has replied
 Message 35 by Larni, posted 09-24-2009 12:19 PM Cedre has not replied

  
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1025 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 27 of 297 (525723)
09-24-2009 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Cedre
09-24-2009 9:07 AM


Re: On the regularity of plane crashes
Tb Joshua also said Friday of the month and asked his congregation to pray on the Friday of the month, it must have been a known Friday ithat case.
'Friday' is not a date, and nor is 'Friday of the month'; particularly when we consider that it did not happen in the same month he was supposed to have said this.
When everything is considered the prediction is too detailed to be a coincidence, and your paragraph below becomes meaningless.
Oddly enough, the remaining 'meaningless' paragraph was the bit where I provided figures to illustrate that the fact that, whilst the prediction may seem detailed at first, the events described (private planes with families on them being involved in an accident on a Friday) are probably not that uncommon that we should be surprised one happened 33 days after the initial prediction.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Cedre, posted 09-24-2009 9:07 AM Cedre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Cedre, posted 09-24-2009 11:55 AM caffeine has not replied

  
Perdition
Member (Idle past 3238 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 28 of 297 (525725)
09-24-2009 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Cedre
09-24-2009 11:43 AM


Re: Quit messing around and deal with my points
Not necessarily. I'm suggesting that a core group of fraudsters can very easily make people believe what they want them to believe. It's happened before, it will happen again. In fact, many people make a living doing just that, both legally and illegally.
This si why eye-witness testimony is considered one of the worst forms of evidence. People misremember, they can be manipulated, they can be deceived. For me to believe this, I would need scientific evidence, such as a doctor going with an unhealthy patient, standing there watching the procedure, and then examining the patient. Preferrably, I would like the doctor to be picked by myself, or at leats by someone I trust to find an impartial doctor.
Once that happens, I would expect the doctor to write up the amazing evidence she/he has just witnessed and documented, publish in a peer-reviewed article, and get a Nobel Prize...probably shared with the "prophet" since he did the work.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Cedre, posted 09-24-2009 11:43 AM Cedre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Cedre, posted 09-24-2009 11:59 AM Perdition has replied

  
Cedre
Member (Idle past 1490 days)
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 29 of 297 (525727)
09-24-2009 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by caffeine
09-24-2009 11:44 AM


Re: On the regularity of plane crashes
Oddly enough, the remaining 'meaningless' paragraph was the bit where I provided figures to illustrate that the fact that, whilst the prediction may seem detailed at first, the events described (private planes with families on them being involved in an accident on a Friday) are probably not that uncommon that we should be surprised one happened 33 days after the initial prediction.
I did look at your figures and they mean nothing at all, they are interesting figures but then again the prophets prediction was rather too detailed to have been a guess. Answer all the points I raised in the post you are dealing with please. When you take them together they build a strong case. Deal with the fact that he was accurate about the day, the type of transport and the type of family and also deal with the time difference between the prophecy and its fulfillment
Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.
Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by caffeine, posted 09-24-2009 11:44 AM caffeine has not replied

  
Cedre
Member (Idle past 1490 days)
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 30 of 297 (525729)
09-24-2009 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Perdition
09-24-2009 11:50 AM


Re: Quit messing around and deal with my points
Not necessarily. I'm suggesting that a core group of fraudsters can very easily make people believe what they want them to believe. It's happened before, it will happen again. In fact, many people make a living doing just that, both legally and illegally.
This si why eye-witness testimony is considered one of the worst forms of evidence. People misremember, they can be manipulated, they can be deceived. For me to believe this, I would need scientific evidence, such as a doctor going with an unhealthy patient, standing there watching the procedure, and then examining the patient. Preferrably, I would like the doctor to be picked by myself, or at leats by someone I trust to find an impartial doctor.
Once that happens, I would expect the doctor to write up the amazing evidence she/he has just witnessed and documented, publish in a peer-reviewed article, and get a Nobel Prize...probably shared with the "prophet" since he did the work.
Allot of interesting theories yet unproven theories as they relate to the SCOAN. note that this church has many critics and people who want to see its downfall, this is documented too, but so far all are failed missions.
Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Perdition, posted 09-24-2009 11:50 AM Perdition has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Perdition, posted 09-24-2009 12:11 PM Cedre has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024