A Modern Day Miracle Man - Establishes the Supernatural Realm

The article dubbed "Spiritual Healing Around the World", did not dedicate a full story to TB Joshua but enclosed him in it, With a picture and a caption. Here's the link, Page not found | TIME. My point is he garnered the notice of the journalists at "Time Magazine", because news of his wonder work was travelling fast.

You lucky bastard. I get the classic Jesus wingnuttery emails about once a month. They change email addresses and servers so some times it gets through spam filters.

---

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

quote:

---

You have added your own words to the prophecy, TB Joshua doesn't include the words "the last" As you have above and therefore your whole argument crumbles.

---

Wrong. Even if that were a valid criticism (and it is not) the other points I raise still stand.You yourself asserted that the "Friday of the Month" must refer to a specific day. It is clear that a word is missing - because more is needed to make it refer to a specific day. "Last" is certainly a candidate - and based on the other evidence one of the most likely ones. Can you think of a word that would make it refer to May 22nd ? I cannot.

quote:

---

As to the past tense used here, TB Joshua is telling his congregation what he saw in his vision, of course in his vision he did see the family enter the plane like a movie if you would, so the use of past tense doesn't mean that he was suggesting that it had already happened.

---

Yet his vision was in the past when he spoke on the 19th - but in the quotes you gave he does not use the past tense at all on the 19th - and he does not use any other on the 26th.So the evidence that he meant 24th April and not 22nd May is:He specifically asked for prayers to be said on the 24th April, and on no other FridayOn the 19th he issued a warning against traveling, but on no later day. (And if he had specifically meant the 22nd May he should have repeated the warning on the previous Sunday ! - the 17th May)The "Friday of the Month" plausibly means the 24th April - and does NOT plausibly mean 22nd May, as a specific date.While the reference on the 19th referred to it as a future event, the repeat on the 26th exclusively uses the past tense.The only date clearly indicated is the 24th April. There is NO reference to any later date whatsoever.

You missed an opportunity to create your own useful post title

You have responded to other posts why not this one by Catholic Scientist? Message 38Explain how this fits into your faith healer adoration.

---

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

I will try my best to work on that

None of that is satisfactory.

I'm not going to let you get away with this statement. Why am I wrong when that phrase has been deliberately added to TB Joshua's original statement. And why isn't my criticism valid? "Friday of the Month" is not your typical way of speaking, but you must not overlook the fact that this man is not a Englishman, the bottom line is there is no missing word here you can view the video of the live broadcast or you can ask the many people who watched TB Joshua make this prophecy. And you're forgetting the fact that he reminded his congregation about that same prophecy again later on and here he says he will pray that instead of the whole family going it will only be one. If as you suggest the accident had already taken place by the time of his second mention of the event then why did he have to pray as he did above. It's interesting to note the TB Joshua disagrees with what you have presented here, on his website. The men who made the statement has every right to decide what he meant. I cannot speak for you and you cannot speak for me. Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.

I don't want to jump into this discussion, but I'll coment a bit on the HIV tests and things.The window of 3 to 6 months were you test negative is after infection, not detection. In other words, if I catch AIDS tomorrow, there will be this timespan were no test will detect it, yet I will be able to transmit it to other people. This is the very reason why you have the whole questionnaire when you go and give blood, because there tests aren't 100% because of this time period.But note that as soon as it becomes 'detectable' in you, than you have passed this window and it will always be detectable. It doesn't fluctuate from positive t negative after that. (Or else doing AIDS tests on blood sample during blood donation would be almost useless)All this is to say that if you are tested positive at an AIDS test, you can't possibly test negative again, you're done, Unless a miracle, or a very very very very improbable event (I remember this guy down in ontario who was cured of AIDS after he had the flu.)

Thanks for that insight slevesque it cleared up a lot. I guess then that these people really were cured of Aids.

See you again tomorrow folks, please preferably don't post anything new until tomorrow as I won't respond to anything until tomorrow. don't flood the thread while I'm away please withhold your posts until tomorrow. If your gonna post try to keep it under one per poster.

The only evidence produced is the one news article. The newspaper says they have seen the medical reports. Whoopee.As well as false negatives, there are false positives.

quote:

---

Nonspecific reactions, hypergammaglobulinemia, or the presence of antibodies directed to other infectious agents that may be antigenically similar to HIV can produce false positive results. Autoimmune diseases, such as systemic lupus erythematosus, can also cause false positive results.

---

SourceFrom same source

quote:

---

As a result of an increase in false positive rates in 2005, New York City's Department of Health and Mental Hygiene added the option of testing finger-stick whole blood after any reactive result, before using a Western Blot test to confirm the positive result. Following a further increase of false positives in NYC DOHMH STD Clinics during the end of 2007 and beginning of 2008, their clinics opted to forgo further oral screenings, and instead reinsituted testing using finger-stick whole blood.

---

---

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

No. There is no evidence to say this.

---

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

quote:

---

I'm not going to let you get away with this statement. Why am I wrong when that phrase has been deliberately added to TB Joshua's original statement. And why isn't my criticism valid?

---

Why I am not allowed to suggest that the missing word is "last" ? That is all that I did, and I had good reasons for doing it. Reasons which you have not refuted.

quote:

---

"Friday of the Month" is not your typical way of speaking, but you must not overlook the fact that this man is not a Englishman, the bottom line is there is no missing word here you can view the video of the live broadcast or you can ask the many people who watched TB Joshua make this prophecy.

---

It is apparently not YOUR way if speaking either, since you offer no viable alternative. And even if I could see the video (and I know of no way to do that) and even if Joshua said no more it is still likely that he missed the word out of his speech. People who are speaking DO sometimes do that, just as Joshua neglects to say what he is praying for on the 26th.

quote:

---

And you're forgetting the fact that he reminded his congregation about that same prophecy again later on and here he says he will pray that instead of the whole family going it will only be one.

---

I certainly did not forget it - as I pointed out it offered NO evidence that any other date than the 24th April was meant.

quote:

---

If as you suggest the accident had already taken place by the time of his second mention of the event then why did he have to pray as he did above.

---

Perhaps because he did not know what had happened (he could hardly have news of the crash since it did not happen), or perhaps praying for the souls of the dead or even for the survivors or those left behind. Joshua doesn't say what he is praying for or why.

quote:

---

It's interesting to note the TB Joshua disagrees with what you have presented here, on his website.

---

No, it is expected. It is more interesting that you neither quote nor link to this statement, so I can answer it.

quote:

---

The men who made the statement has every right to decide what he meant. I cannot speak for you and you cannot speak for me.

---

Normally that would be true - people can misspeak. However if he misspoke then it negates this example as a valid example of a successful prediction. For that we must look at what he said BEFORE the alleged fulfillment - not what he claims that he meant after the fact.

I don't think anyone claimed that AIDS tests were 100% sure.I would be interested in knowing the % of the test used. Because there was a person who had it tested positive four times, would this even be possible if he didn't really have AIDS ?You also have to keep in mind that any evidence for miracles will be eye-witness accounts and testimonies. And so if I want to invesitigate a particular 'miracle claim' all I will have to work with will be testimonies. To go beyond that, I will have to myself be subject to said 'miracle claim' so to have a personnal experience of it. But this of course, will become only be an eye-witness account for everybody else. It's sort of a viscious circle.In other words, I find the atheists claims against this sort of miraculous manifestation (I'm talking about miracle claims in general, not this particular one) will always be of the sort: prove it cannot have a naturalistic origin.This is really like the theist's own version of this claim: prove me God doesn't exist. These are both universal negatives, and so cannot be proven wrong. In other words: both claims are simply used as to protect the pre-existing belief of the person, either be it atheism or theism,