A Modern Day Miracle Man - Establishes the Supernatural Realm

Gee, whudda thunk.Pilots don't think turboprops are jets.
Turboprop Vs Jet - Airline Pilot Central Forums
http://www.beanairlinepilot.com/...n/7627-turboprop-jet.htmlAnd neither do passengers
http://www.airliners.net/...s/aviation_polls/read.main/34659nor airlines
Turboprop beats jet for VLM – Business Traveller

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

Did you watch the video yet? Have you seen his quote in context?Its reasonable that if he saw a vision of that turbo prop plane that he would call it a jet in the way that he did.

I am attempting to show that Cedre will say anything to make the prophecy work. It does not matter actually what the charlatan said. Cedre is making more and more outlandish statements on this one issue in order to make the prophecy fit.I grant to you that is is incidental to the whole prophecy, but instead of just saying that, Cedre wants to go out on a limb and make claims about a turbo prop being commonly referred to as a jet.He could have very easily have looked at the video like you and I have and come to the same conclusion. Instead every word is integral to the prophecy in his own mind. That is why it has become important to him to draw this line in the sand. I have solely been trying to show that he is willing to use various mental gymnastics in order to make the prophecy fit any reality.

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

Quite right - it was a shortening of my actual argument which is expanded elsewhere. I am not using this evidence to assert that this church is involved in deception, there is other evidence that might lead to that conclusion. I am just pointing out that when you trollied out the old 'sceptic who was converted' line, it doesn't mean there is something to it since that is exactly what we would see if deception was taking place. If you think it is wise to give money to a potential conman as a means of testing if they are a conman then you go right ahead and do that. Incidentally, my uncle was a lawyer to a Nigerian prince... We all approach issues with prejudice, and we are all after the truth. I am just trying to make sure that prejudices have less of an impact on my decision making when it comes to believing someone has powers. It is an easy thing to fake it well enough to convince thousands, millions even of people. So I want to be sure that this case is not one of the many dupes using very similar techniques that I've come across before. No - I just concluded that this is the same setup a conman might use to get money from people. Whether or not he is, remains to be seen. Unfortunately you have presented no evidence which differentiates him from a con man. Since being a conman is more common than being a prophet, I conclude there is a reasonable chance this man is conman, but he might not be and I'd like to see some evidence that suggests he isn't.

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Those who are flying, please take Psalm 91. If you are going to fly: 17, 27, 28, in between 17, 27, 28. Write it down. Please, Psalm 91 and be in the Spirit because by the time you are in the Spirit and this Psalm, you observe it, there will be [a] mark in you. Even when you are about to be checked in, something will happen that you will not be able to go — if it is going to take your life. It’s either you miss your flight; it’s either something happens. 17, 27, 28. From that 17 — the whole thing from 17 to the end of the month.

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This is the usual kind of meaningless crap that you can take any way you want. It doesn't even make sense. Why do your 'prophets' never produce anything specific?'Prophets' produce this sort of nonsense in an ambiguous form so the credulous will find a way of 'making it come true'.Produce some real, specific, dated prophecies of unlikely events that actually came true, demonstrate that this has been done repeatedly, and that the events are outside the control or influence of the 'prophet', and you might start convincing people who are interested in evidence.Currently all you are doing is confirming everything I have already believed and increasing my degree of cynicism.And don't go on about us ignoring evidence - produce some first.

It may not be technically right to call it a "jet" to most of us more familiar with aircraft but it is entirely possible that someone could call all aircraft "jets".In addition I have heard turboprops called "jetprops" as in the old days they replaced a piston engine with what is the heart of a "jet" engine -- the turbine.

Well phrased.If you watch the video, he says something along the lines of:"and I see this family, getting into a... /shrugs... jet, and they're.."I certainly looked and sounded like he was just referring to "some kind of aircraft" as a "jet".Plus, his Enrish isn't the best so that might just be the first word he thought of.All in all, it doesn't seem like a good point to be making in argument against the prophesy.

Had anyone that heard his prophecy been scheduled to be on any of those flights, and did they get bumped for some reason? Were any of the people who were in the crashes aware of the prophecy? If not, then it seems like all he did was make a vague prediction that an air crash would occur during the end of the month. Do you know how many air crashes occur during a month? Do you know how many occur during the last half of the month of January?If I say, "Be careful if you're flying during the beginning of the month of October, between 1, 5, 16, any of the days from 1 to 16, for if you shall be on a flight during that time and it crashes, if you be righteous, you shall not be hurt."Does that sound specific enough for you to match what he said? Would you like to place a wager on whether an air accident will happen, or maybe even many, during that time?Both of these prophecies you have copied have been vague to the point of uselessness. One says a jet will crash on a Friday with a family on board. What do YOU think are the odds of that happening? I think they're very high, you seem to disagree with that. Why?The second says an air accident will occur during the last half of the month of January, and it even allows a military helicopter crash to count as fulfillment. It doesn't say where, it doesn't say what type of air craft. Do you know how many craft are in the air at one time? So, again, what do you think are the odds that at least one accident involving an aircraft will occur during the last half of a month are? I think they're very high, you seem to disagree with that. Why?What he is doing is making a prophecy that is incredibly likely to happen, and then claiming fulfillment of that prophecy when that very likely thing happens, even if the implications of his prophecy are not met. In the firts oine, as PaulK is arguing, it was implied that the incident would be on the 24th, they weren't. In this one, it implied that someone who was at his little get-together (or at least someone who was aware of the prophecy) would be on the plane, or would be scheduled to be on it but get bumped for some reason. I didn't see any reason to think this is so, so it seems another implication of his prophecy failed, but he will ignore that since he can claim he never actually said that.You're a very credulous person when it comes to things that already agree with your beliefs. I'm a very incredulous person, even if it seems to agree with my beliefs. That's where we differ.

Why would TB Joshua have people pray if he already knows that the prayer will be ineffective?Maybe the prayer was effective and the incident was suppose to take place on that Friday, but was thwarted because of the praying? We will never know. If the prophecy serves as a warning and the family heeds the warning and never boards the plane, then the prophecy will never be fulfilled? That would then make it not a prophecy at all, right?I've done some digging on this TB Joshua, watched many of the videos on YouTube, and have found nothing convincing at all. Very little information is available about him that is not controlled, approved or released from his own organization. He is nothing but a conman and you have fallen for it hook line and sinker.Did you really come here expecting to show us all that there is proof of the supernatural by pointing the way to a man that is an obvious fraud? You have done nothing but show me how terribly gullible you are!
--------------------------BTW..did anyone else watch the video that Catholic Scientist posted in message 38? What's up with all the "leg cancer" ? Haha!!! What a charlitian. Just what you would expect from a third world country.

...against the *alleged* prophecy. - OniEdited by onifre, : No reason given.

comments and remarks do not double up as proof for whatever you're trying to demonstrate. This is an unreal statement as it relates to the specific and accurate prophecies of TB Joshua, that are broadcast live to the world before they come to pass. There is nothing ambiguous about the above-cited prophecy or the other prophecies TB Joshua is responsible for, especially this one is as clear as daylight mentioning specific dates and the type of events connected to them. Even likely events are not guaranteed to happen everyday. So therefore this argument cannot effectively be used against the prophecies of TB Joshua that not only name specific dates, are accurate and are fulfilled within a relatively short period, like the the above-cited prophecy that predicts a chain of aviation accidents, spotlighting the day on which these chain of accidents will instigate and the day on which it will cease. Aviation accidents by the way are not totally likely events they are uncommon even though they occur. To demonstrate this I will provide you with a few stats from planecrashinfo.com, according to this site the number of recorded fatal plane crashes involving commercial aircraft from 1950-2008 is 1,300.After carrying out a bit of grade school mathematics I arrived at the following results:There has been close to 58 years between 1950-2008, in total these 58 years consisted of close to 21199 days. Assuming each individual crash corresponds to one day, only 1,300 days in this period of time witnessed a plane crash the remaining 19899 days were accident free excluding non-fatal crashes. In view of this facts, plane crashes although they do occur are rare events, and may not occur for months at a time. Therefore to assert that TB Joshua takes common events and prophecy on them and use that as an argument to disqualify his prophecies is outlandish. Like I said even common events don't happen on a daily, weekly or even a monthly basis.What makes the prophecy about the plane crashes so incredible is the fact that it predicted the exact dates, not date, but dates on which the crashes occurred with frightening precision. Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.

You are making the assumption that TB knew the prayer wasn't going to be effective, I say he did not know this, he just trusted and hoped God would intervene and it was this hope and trust that most likely prompted his request for prayer. There is nothing in the prophecy that hints that the incident was supposed to happen on the Friday you are alluding to. Aren't they just an incredible display of God's mighty power. I don't agree with you here, there is enough convincing evidence on this clips clearly hinting at the reality of the supernatural realm, I think your merely in denial. That's a false accusation, there are many thousands of people who attend this healing services, at times up to more than twenty thousand people. The fact that you haven't supplied any evidence for this claim shows that it you just decided on your own that he is a conman. Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.

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Aviation accidents by the way are not totally likely events they are uncommon even though they occur. To demonstrate this I will provide you with a few stats from planecrashinfo.com, according to this site the number of recorded fatal plane crashes involving commercial aircraft from 1950-2008 is 1,300.

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The first problem here is that TB Joshua counts personal and military flights as well as commercial flights. You should use more complete figures.The second is that air travel has dramatically increased over the last fifty years. An average over that period of time cannot be trusted to give us a figure that applies today.

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There has been close to 58 years between 1950-2008, in total these 58 years consisted of close to 21199 days. Assuming each individual crash corresponds to one day, only 1,300 days in this period of time witnessed a plane crash the remaining 19899 days were accident free excluding non-fatal crashes.

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And excluding military crashes, and crashes of private planes...In contrast the full database for 2008 shows 59 crashes where crew or passengers died (and one where the people on the plane survived but 47 people on the ground were killed). More than one a week. The 2007 figures show 52 such crashes.

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In view of this facts, plane crashes although they do occur are rare events, and may not occur for months at a time

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The full database shows that there was no month in 2007 or 2008 without a fatal crash.

This is no problem at all, his prophecy is still too incredible, to be a coincidence, no amount of babbling will change the fact that the prophecy was very detailed, in fact, TB Joshua appears to have known that not only one kind of aircraft would be involved in this crashes but various kinds of them, that is why he avoids from mentioning the type of aircraft and simply states "Those of you who would be flying".
and this makes it more amazing. The stats I gave you enclose these 50 years and really looking at the numbers it hasn't increased as much as you are suggesting. The bottom line is they number of recorded aviation accidents is still too small for it to be called a common event, it is still rare. There are 5,286 accidents in the database, a number that is still too low when compared with the 21199 days that that existed between this years. And this goes on to show that aviation accidents are not common events they are still very rare. Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.

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This is no problem at all, his prophecy is still too incredible, to be a coincidence, no amount of babbling will change the fact that the prophecy was very detailed, in fact, TB Joshua appears to have known that not only one kind of aircraft would be involved in this crashes but various kinds of them, that is why he avoids from mentioning the type of aircraft and simply states "Those of you who would be flying".
and this makes it more amazing.

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In other words the fact that you used a figure which is too low, makes the prophecy "more amazing".

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The stats I gave you enclose these 50 years and really looking at the numbers it hasn't increased as much as you are suggesting. The bottom line is they number of recorded aviation accidents is still too small for it to be called a common event, it is still rare.

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You must be joking.

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There are 5,286 accidents in the database of a number that is still too low when compared with the 21199 days that that existed between this years. And this goes on to show that aviation accidents are not common events they are still very rare.

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Do the mathematics. 21199/5286 is just over 4. One crash every 4 days... Hardly a rare event.