Some Questions Concerning the Eden Texts, etc.

With hands? Animal spirit versus animal soul is a bit of a contradiction when I know that Paul distinguished between the two.

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“Indeed, the Word of God is living and active and is sharper than any two-edged sword. It pierces until it divides soul from spirit, joints from marrow; it is able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.” -- Hebrews 4:12

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Do animals have souls or spirits? Is there a difference? It is the essence and core of a person's being, the totality of individuality. But for me it is a concept to explain something abstract. It is something that seems somewhat axiomatic even if people disagree on exact principles.I've always liked C.S. Lewis' explanation that you don't have a soul, you are a soul.

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"I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. 'Tis the business of little minds to shrink, but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death. " Thomas Paine

there is a slight difference between soul and spirit. The greek word for spirit is pneu'ma and it means to breath or blow. And the hebrew word for Soul is nephesh which means a 'breathing creature'so a soul is the living body of the creature, while the spirit is the life force of that creature...at Job 33:4"Gods own spirit made me, And the Almighty’s own breath proceeded to bring me to life"In the above scripture from Job, its Gods breath, or his 'spirit' that gives 'life'
The following scriptures shows what happens to the spirit of mankindPsalm 146:4 "His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground;
In that day his thoughts do perish."
the word used here in greek is pneu'ma. The spirit is the 'breath' which translates to the 'life' of the person. When the life goes out, he returns to the ground and his thoughts do perish.So its clearly showing that the 'spirit' is not something that lives on, its not tangible, its the breath within the person...or the 'life' of the person. then CS Lewis would be correct...perhaps he knew hebrew? lol Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

So to qualify for a soul you just have to breathe? Then is Disney right? Do All Dogs Go To Heaven? Define "life force." Wait a minute, you just said that the soul is the breath of life and the spirit is the life force, whatever that means. So when a person dies and they have no life left in them, they obviously have stopped respirating, what happens then?

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"I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. 'Tis the business of little minds to shrink, but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death. " Thomas Paine

i know its a little confusing...i did say soul and spirit are very similar but, not quite.The hebrew belief was not the same as what the churchs teach about souls and spirits.the hebrew word for soul simply means 'a living creature' or as CS Lewis says 'you dont HAVE a soul, you ARE a soul'and the greek and hebrew word for spirit (pne'o & ru'ach) , simply means 'breath' and if something has 'breath' its alive.so to have spirit, is to have life. Life is the same as the 'life force'
While someone is living, they have it. But when they are dead, the life force is gone.Here is a scripture that shows that the lifeforce and spirit are one and the same:

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Psalm 104: 25As for this sea so great and wide, There there are moving things without number, Living creatures, small as well as great... 29... If you take away their spirit, they expire, And back to their dust they go. 30If you send forth your spirit, they are created

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Do you see how it shows that when their spirit is taken away, they expire?To have spirit, is to be alive...to loose spirit (breath) is to die.I'll speak to my hebrew teacher tomorrow and see if she has an easier way of explaining soul from spirit.

The revelation of the difference between spirit and soul is progressive in the Bible. We should not expect it to be as clear in the book of Genesis as it is in the books of the New Testament.This is because the revelation of the economy and plan of God is also progressive. And the distinction between the human soul and the human spirit advances roughly along the same pace as the unvieling of God's purpose to dispense Himself into man.Now, I would advize you to think of three realms along with three parts of man:The spiritual realm (God) - needs the exercise of the human spirit.The psychological realm (other minds, other souls) - needs the exercise of the human soul.The physical realm (the physical world) - needs the exercise of the human physical body.Therefore spirit, soul, and body are three facilities of man related to three realms of existence - the realm of God and the spiritual, the realm of the psychological, and the realm of the physical.These can be thought of as three dimensions. To repeat, this kind of distinction is progressively disclosed in the Bible. But lets take Genesis 2:7 as a proto revelation of this matter - a little preliminary window given."Jehovah God formed man with the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul."1.) The physical body of the man came from the dust of the ground.
2.) The innermost spirit of man came from God. This kind of very profound matter is spoken somewhat poetically perhaps because of the limitation of human language - God breathed into his nostrils the spirit of life, the breath of life.
3.) The result of the union of the spirit breathed out from God and the physical body made of dust CAUSED man to become a living soul.The joining of the spirit "breathed" out from God and the physical body formed of the dust caused something to emerge into existence. The man became a living soul.The spirit breathed out from God and into the nostrils of man is something very close to God Himself. Yet it is not God. But it gives the man an "organ" to contact God.The spirit breathed out by the Creator into the dusty man anchors the created man with the way to contact the Uncreated and Divine Person of God. The spirit breathed into man became man's human spirit. And this human spirit links man to the realm of the Uncreated and Divine Source of everything - God.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Someone might object that the animals have a spirit also so that means there is nothing special about the spirit of man. I concede that in the Old Testament they may have some ground for that objection.But there is not enough ground to undue the other parts of the Bible which progressively show that the spirit of man connects allows man to connect to God in a way that the animals do not do so.Now I am not going to give chapter and verse now because I am not with my study Bible. However I would submit two passages:"There is a spirit in man, and the breath of the Almighty gives him understanding""The spirit of man is the lamp of Jehovah, illuminating the all the parts of the inner being."I will provide locations to these two Old Testament passages latter. One is from the book of Job and the other is in the book of Proverbs.Anyway, there is a spirit in man should mean that man is more than a spirit. Within the man there IS a spirit. There is a spirit IN man. This human spirit is the breath of the Almighty which gives him understanding.I don't believe that this means that the spirit of man is man's mind. I believe that it means that the spirit of man supplies man's mind with understanding. Man's mind must interpret the things which are in man's spirit. There is a spirit in man which is the breath of the Almighty and gives the man understanding.This understanding, I believe, is not of common matters. It is understanding of divine realities. This is an understanding supplied to the human mind which trancends what the other creatures on earth have. That is my opinion about this passage.The other passage says that the spirit of man is the lamp of God. This lamp of Jehovah installed in man illuminates to God and man all the inward parts of the inner being.This to me means there are the inner parts of the inner being of man. And distinct from them is the spirit of man which shine light upon these other inward parts of man. I take this to mean that man's human spirit is deeper than his mind, emotion, and will. It is the deepest part of man that illuminates to God and man the inner motives, intentions, thoughts of man to himself and to God.In addition to these verses there is Zechariah 12:1 which says that God stretched forth the heavens, laid the foundation of the earth and formed the spirit of man within him. Again, the spirit of man is within him. He is more than just spirit. He has within him a spirit.This passage also illustrates the importance of this human spirit of man. It ranks in importance to two other matters - the heavens and the foundation of the earth.In short the passage means to me that the heavens are for the earth and the earth is for man and man has a human spirit to contact God the Creator. The Lord stetched forth the universe for the earth. Then God formed the earth's foundation for mankind. Then God formed the spirit of man within man that man may have communion, fellowship, and intimate enjoyment of the Uncreated Divine Life which is God.

Jaywill, EMA here, I am involved in a similar discussion in the thread "Spiritual death is not Biblical". I was wondering if you might spread yourself out enough to give some assistance and insight in that thread as well. I think myself and the others are doing fine but your knowledge would be of great assistance to the overall imput. It would mean that you would have to catch up on the posts but we are not that far into it.Also, would it be possible to quote some of the stuff you have here in that thread?Thanks againEAMEdited by EMA, : No reason given.

Sorry for any confusion.One thing is for certain. When we die we will turn into dust. It seems reasonable that dust is what we were made of.And the dust came out of the stars. I think everything physical can be traced back to what was in the enterior of stars.But to know that we were made of dust is good enough for the purposes of the Bible.It seems that God is so aware as to be able to trace every molecule of our bodies to know where each came from. According to Psalm 139 he observed David while he was being formed in the depths of the earth even before he was knit together in his mother's womb: The extent of both His ownership of us as His creations and His love for us is far beyond what we can imagine. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.