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Author Topic:   Why are there no human apes alive today?
traste
Member (Idle past 3433 days)
Posts: 173
Joined: 02-09-2009


Message 106 of 1075 (526132)
09-25-2009 11:32 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by bluescat48
09-24-2009 12:05 AM


bluescat48 wrote:

The point is they didn't survive. The other apes & Homo sapiens survived but the so called apemen didn't

Yes,they didnt survived,and that violates the theory of evolution.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by bluescat48, posted 09-24-2009 12:05 AM bluescat48 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by bluescat48, posted 09-26-2009 1:05 AM traste has responded

  
traste
Member (Idle past 3433 days)
Posts: 173
Joined: 02-09-2009


Message 107 of 1075 (526133)
09-25-2009 11:36 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by caffeine
09-24-2009 5:39 AM


Re: The difference between 'adapted' and 'advanced'
Caffeine wrote:

Adaptation is purely relative to your environment. Take the sperm whale. It's very well adapted to life in the sea, so by your reckoning it's features must be advanced. However, if you put a sperm whale in the middle of the Kalahari, it wouldn't last five minutes

What is the connection of this to the prices, of horses in Germany?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by caffeine, posted 09-24-2009 5:39 AM caffeine has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by caffeine, posted 10-28-2009 5:14 AM traste has not yet responded

  
traste
Member (Idle past 3433 days)
Posts: 173
Joined: 02-09-2009


Message 108 of 1075 (526135)
09-25-2009 11:54 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Granny Magda
09-24-2009 12:10 AM


Re: Evolution is Not Advancement
Granny Magda wrote:

No it doesn't. If you think this is the case, why don't you go and find a reputable source that uses this as the definition of evolution?

Im, very much afaid I cannot for the simple reason that if I present those source you just simply said they are lying, Idont like to waste my effort.

Derived forms are not more advanced, just different. If you said more complex, that might be more accurate, over the long term, but even that is not necessarily true at all times

Different in what sense? Yeah, I know that they are much more complex and more advanced in the same time, like the many machine we observe today, the complex one is more advanced than the other.

Because advanced or not, their genetic inheritance just happened to equip them well enough to survive

Your faith in evolution is showing..Hasty generalization.

If this were true, then the earliest and most primitive lifeforms would inevitably died out as soon as they emerged. Not advanced enough

Emerged from where? According to evolution the development was gradual,not sudden. The fact that we still see those primtive life forms are good evidence that Darwinian evolution is unverefiable,it cannot be tested today.

Edited by traste, : add text

Edited by traste, : wrong grammar

Edited by traste, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Granny Magda, posted 09-24-2009 12:10 AM Granny Magda has responded

Replies to this message:
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traste
Member (Idle past 3433 days)
Posts: 173
Joined: 02-09-2009


Message 109 of 1075 (526140)
09-26-2009 12:09 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by Dr Adequate
09-25-2009 9:49 AM


Dr Adequate wrote:

This is, of course, not true

That is 100%, that is the real reason why we cannot see intermidiate forms today.

This is why paleontologists, who, unlike you, spend their lives studying the fossil record, do not agree with your fantasies about the fossil record.

Even honest paleontologist noticed the sudden apperance of organism.

Just give me an example of a dog with out an eye and then gradually have it through blind naturalistic process.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-25-2009 9:49 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-26-2009 2:24 AM traste has responded

  
traste
Member (Idle past 3433 days)
Posts: 173
Joined: 02-09-2009


Message 110 of 1075 (526145)
09-26-2009 12:20 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by Huntard
09-25-2009 10:28 AM


Huntard:

You are just a kind of guy, who are after showing sources just simply said, they are lying. That is a logical interpratation.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with evolution.

It has that are there premises, how life originated through, material process.

They show both. Fully formed animals that showcase progressive changes

They only show one, and that is sudden appearance.

Yes, this is why we have this evidence. It's called the fossil record.

No, they did'nt that is the reason that there is seious disagreement among scientist.

Only in creationist circles.

And the evidences sided them.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Huntard, posted 09-25-2009 10:28 AM Huntard has not yet responded

  
traste
Member (Idle past 3433 days)
Posts: 173
Joined: 02-09-2009


Message 111 of 1075 (526146)
09-26-2009 12:24 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by Huntard
09-25-2009 10:29 AM


Huntard wrote:

Wells is lying.

No,he is telling the truth.

Pray tell, who are these "many" you refer to?

If I were the one you task, I will not because you will simply said they are lying.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Huntard, posted 09-25-2009 10:29 AM Huntard has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Huntard, posted 09-26-2009 2:03 AM traste has responded

  
traste
Member (Idle past 3433 days)
Posts: 173
Joined: 02-09-2009


Message 112 of 1075 (526147)
09-26-2009 12:33 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by Dr Adequate
09-25-2009 10:38 AM


Dr Adequate wrote:

Jonathan Wells is not a professional biologist

Actually he is, he has Ph. D of cell and molecular biology and former member of the National Academy Of Science.

He works for the Discovery Institute

A senior fellow. Wow, you know his status this will lead you to character assasination.

he's a professional creationist propagandist

He is just writing what the nature is saying.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-25-2009 10:38 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-26-2009 1:35 AM traste has responded

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 2480 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


(1)
Message 113 of 1075 (526154)
09-26-2009 1:05 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by traste
09-25-2009 11:32 PM


How does they didn't survive, violate the theory of evolution. Ever heard of survival of the fittest? Those that could adapt survived ie: certain species of the genera, Gorilla, Pan & Homo.


There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008


This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by traste, posted 09-25-2009 11:32 PM traste has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by traste, posted 09-26-2009 1:30 AM bluescat48 has not yet responded

  
traste
Member (Idle past 3433 days)
Posts: 173
Joined: 02-09-2009


Message 114 of 1075 (526159)
09-26-2009 1:16 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by Percy
09-25-2009 10:49 AM


Percy wrote:

About your first two quotes (from Steven Stanley and Niles Eldrege), do you really beleive that these two very prominent paleontologists actually believe that the fossil record is not consistent with evolution?

Those statements, are saying that the evidences are inconflict with there evolutioanary beliefs.

They're on the evolutionary side, remember?

Yes, but they are posting negative comments.

Can you even count the number of times you've been warned not to trust creationist websites when it comes to quotes?

If you study polsci and logic,you will understand why.

Stanley is misquoted. Where you have [slow evolution] he actually said "gradualism." Stanley is an advocate of punctuated equilibrium. So is Eldredge, a colleague of Gould. They're making the point that the fossil record actually indicates that species change can be relatively rapid, with the emphasis on "relatively." They're still talking about thousands of years at a minimum.

If he is an advocate of punctuated equilibrium,he cannot be an advacate of gradualism. Similarly if, a= b,and b is not c then a is not c.

The fossil record is compatible with the descent of chimps, gorillas and humans from a common ancestor, but more relevant is the morphological and genetic similarities. Both morphologically and genetically chimps, gorillas and humans are more similar to each other than to any other animals in the animal kingdom. Chimps, gorillas and apes are all animals. They're all vertebrates. They're all mammals. They're all primates. And they're all apes.

In biology's classification system all animals have to be in some group with other animals until you get down to the bottom level, the species level. Human beings are a unique species, Homo sapiens. We're even unique in our genus, Homo, since we're the only species in this genus. But we're not the only species at the family level, which is called Hominidae, less formally and more ambiguously, apes. Chimps, gorillas and humans share the same Hominidae, or apes, classification group

The primary task of science is to" minimze story telling" and to maximze objective truth", we dont need to call a story teller in making bridges, nor we do call a story teller in manufacturing cars, but we need a one who has profound understanding of the engineering principle. "Science is not an inscrutable priesthood ",so writes onejudge ,hence it follows that it not a matter of faith,but a matter of evidences, but this is conflict with what we observed among proponents of evolution, when they cannot figure out they just said " through billions of years of evolutionary changes" this organism became lke that and this one became like that, this a only a sory telling, indeed those billions of years of evolutionary changes become the "god of the gaps".

No proponents of ID claimed that classification doesnt exist,they exist but what is the connection of that to gradual change on organism, Linneus observed those yet he dont believe that they evolved, he simply group those organism for easy study. In addition, dog and plant breeders observed those small changes, those are micro changes they didn't evoved into something new.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Percy, posted 09-25-2009 10:49 AM Percy has responded

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traste
Member (Idle past 3433 days)
Posts: 173
Joined: 02-09-2009


Message 115 of 1075 (526164)
09-26-2009 1:30 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by bluescat48
09-26-2009 1:05 AM


bluecats wrote:

How does they didn't survive, violate the theory of evolution. Ever heard of survival of the fittest?

It really violates because according to evolution they supposed to survived, but as we know they dint, for the simple reason that we dont see them today.

Edited by traste, : add word


This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by bluescat48, posted 09-26-2009 1:05 AM bluescat48 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by DrJones*, posted 09-26-2009 1:34 AM traste has responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1958
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 5.0


(1)
Message 116 of 1075 (526165)
09-26-2009 1:34 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by traste
09-26-2009 1:30 AM


It really violates because according to evolution they supposed to survived

Why are they "supposed" to survive? What would prevent them from being outcompeted by other species?


It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry

Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by traste, posted 09-26-2009 1:30 AM traste has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by traste, posted 09-26-2009 1:42 AM DrJones* has responded

Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16107
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 7.7


(1)
Message 117 of 1075 (526168)
09-26-2009 1:35 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by traste
09-26-2009 12:33 AM


Actually he is, he has Ph. D of cell and molecular biology and former member of the National Academy Of Science.

To be a professional biologist, you have to work as a biologist.

A senior fellow. Wow, you know his status this will lead you to character assasination.

It's character assassination to say that someone works for a creationist organization? Yeah, it guess it is. Nonetheless, it's true.

He is just writing what the nature is saying.

He is writing what the Moonies are saying. There's a difference.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by traste, posted 09-26-2009 12:33 AM traste has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by traste, posted 09-26-2009 1:46 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded
 Message 121 by traste, posted 09-26-2009 1:55 AM Dr Adequate has responded

traste
Member (Idle past 3433 days)
Posts: 173
Joined: 02-09-2009


Message 118 of 1075 (526170)
09-26-2009 1:42 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by DrJones*
09-26-2009 1:34 AM


Dr Jones wrote:

Why are they "supposed" to survive? What would prevent them from being outcompeted by other species

They should supposed to survived, because they are advanced,the simple reason why they are not outcompeted is they have advanced features.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by DrJones*, posted 09-26-2009 1:34 AM DrJones* has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by DrJones*, posted 09-26-2009 1:49 AM traste has responded

  
traste
Member (Idle past 3433 days)
Posts: 173
Joined: 02-09-2009


Message 119 of 1075 (526171)
09-26-2009 1:46 AM
Reply to: Message 117 by Dr Adequate
09-26-2009 1:35 AM


Dr Adequate wrote:

To be a professional biologist, you have to work as a biologist.

He was a former member of the National Academy Of Science. Are you seriouly suggesting that the members of the National Academy Of Science are not professional biologist?

Edited by traste, : wrong placement of qutatio mark


This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-26-2009 1:35 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1958
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 5.0


(1)
Message 120 of 1075 (526172)
09-26-2009 1:49 AM
Reply to: Message 118 by traste
09-26-2009 1:42 AM


They should supposed to survived, because they are advanced

Advanced is relative, this was pointed out to you with the whale example up thread.

the simple reason why they are not outcompeted is they have advanced features

Features that are considered advanced for a given enviroment might be a detriment when that enviroment changes. Features that are considered to be advanced in relation to other species might not be so great when another more advanced species moves into the nieghbourhood.

Advanced is relative.


It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry

Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by traste, posted 09-26-2009 1:42 AM traste has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by traste, posted 09-26-2009 2:03 AM DrJones* has responded

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