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Author Topic:   What would happen if the ToE were disproven? (A suspense/thriller novel project)
swalker2001
Junior Member (Idle past 5290 days)
Posts: 12
From: Dallas, TX USA
Joined: 09-28-2009


Message 1 of 39 (526654)
09-28-2009 10:55 PM


I am in the middle of writing a novel in which a fossil discovery essentially negates much of the Theory of Evolution. The book is really about what happens throughout the world once the leading theory on how life began switches from evolution is no longer considered viable. It is not a treatise on creation or ID vs. Evolution.
I do, however, want to have the science right. I know for example that the discovery of any single fossil, such as the pre-cambrian rabbit often discussed, is unlikely to completely "disprove" the complete ToE. So I have decided that the "fossil" that is discovered in my book starts a kind of "domino" effect of other investigations and discoveries that eventually cannot be ignored by biologists/anthropologists.
In the book, the ToE IS actually disproven. I don't care if I have to insert a little sci-fi or something completely outrageous to make this happen. This is fiction, so anything is fair game. It needs to be something that even a real-life evolution proponent would agree with, given that the outrageous thing had actually occurred.
I can see a real-world scientist saying, "OK, if THAT happened, then it changes everything. In THAT case, which is IMPOSSIBLE in the real world, then I could buy that evolution is totally wrong. Totally. But THAT is completely fiction." It's ok, because this IS fiction we are talking about.
I just need some help in getting the overall scenario developed. I have written what I can already without knowing how this actually occurs in my fictional world. But now I need to fill in a lot of blanks. I want enough real science in it maintain accuracy right up to the point where I have to veer from reality to make the defeat of ToE believable.
I would love to see everyone's ideas. Remember, we are in the world of reality-based fantasy in this thread so please try to have fun with it!
Edited by swalker2001, : Didn't like the way the sig looked. Added subtitle
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Added the " (A science fiction novel project)" part to the topic title.
Edited by swalker2001, : Book is not really sci-fi...it may have to have a sci-fi device at the beginning in order to allow me to take the path I want...that is what i hope to discover here...

Steve Walker
Engineer, Author, Social Media Specialist

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Coyote, posted 09-28-2009 11:24 PM swalker2001 has replied
 Message 5 by subbie, posted 09-28-2009 11:36 PM swalker2001 has replied
 Message 6 by slevesque, posted 09-29-2009 12:44 AM swalker2001 has replied
 Message 8 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-29-2009 2:22 AM swalker2001 has replied
 Message 28 by AChristianDarkly, posted 09-29-2009 6:45 PM swalker2001 has replied

  
swalker2001
Junior Member (Idle past 5290 days)
Posts: 12
From: Dallas, TX USA
Joined: 09-28-2009


Message 10 of 39 (526760)
09-29-2009 9:16 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Coyote
09-28-2009 11:24 PM


Re: Interesting idea
If I used the pre-Cambrian rabbit, it would have to turn out not to be an isolated find...the protagonist and other explorers would have to find many more...which means that there would have to be some reason that none had ever been found before...perhaps nobody knew where to look?
Edited by swalker2001, : misspelling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Coyote, posted 09-28-2009 11:24 PM Coyote has not replied

  
swalker2001
Junior Member (Idle past 5290 days)
Posts: 12
From: Dallas, TX USA
Joined: 09-28-2009


Message 11 of 39 (526765)
09-29-2009 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by slevesque
09-29-2009 12:44 AM


The point of the book is that when the ToE goes away, all that is left is God. So what happens when a society that says it believes in God overall, but doesn't believe in things like The Great Flood, the creation story of Genesis, etc has to re-examine those stories? What about the non-believers who have found scientific explanations for everything What happens when some of those scientific explanations are found to be wrong?
I think there will be many new theories advanced, some totally outrageous, others possibly viable, there will be much wringing of hands, jobs will be lost, new industries created, preachers saying, "I told you so," and lots of things I haven't thought of yet.
So special creation will be the theory of the day after my hypothetical fossil(s) are discovered.
I do not have an agenda to try and promote either theory. I really just want to see what might happen. I am sure there will be a segment of the population that will be more at peace but others that will feel like their whole world has been pulled out from under them. Will chaos ensue? Maybe.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Blue Jay, posted 09-29-2009 10:08 AM swalker2001 has replied
 Message 17 by PaulK, posted 09-29-2009 10:12 AM swalker2001 has not replied
 Message 23 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-29-2009 11:30 AM swalker2001 has replied

  
swalker2001
Junior Member (Idle past 5290 days)
Posts: 12
From: Dallas, TX USA
Joined: 09-28-2009


Message 12 of 39 (526778)
09-29-2009 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Dr Adequate
09-29-2009 2:22 AM


I have changed the title of the thread to indicate that this isn't so much a sci-fi work as a suspense/thriller...the reason is that even though I may have to use a sci-fi device of some kind to get me where I need to be, the focus of the book is what happens in the world after this discovery is made, not the discovery itself.
And yes, you are right. I must have something that will not "pretend" that all the successes of the ToE don't exist. They must be covered. I don't want to just say "that's just how God decided to do it" but I will if I have to.
As I explained in a previous post, the book seeks to examine how society reacts once the scientific explanation for how we got here is removed...and we are left with only a supernatural one, namely God. I am sure I will have characters coming in with new theories involving aliens, etc. But I am here to solicit help in getting exactly what you mention...a discovery that basically renders ToE useless, but still explains the "apparent" success of it.
As for the Speciator....not a bad idea. I kinda like that in fact. Maybe the next book will be science fiction and that is a good start. If you or somebody else here doesn't write it first, I may come back to that one later. :-)

Steve Walker
Engineer, Author, Social Media Specialist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-29-2009 2:22 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Peg, posted 10-01-2009 9:49 AM swalker2001 has not replied

  
swalker2001
Junior Member (Idle past 5290 days)
Posts: 12
From: Dallas, TX USA
Joined: 09-28-2009


Message 13 of 39 (526780)
09-29-2009 9:46 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by subbie
09-28-2009 11:36 PM


Thanks for the thoughtful response. This is why I came here. I don't want to just poof the ToE out of existence. I want to come up with something that does explain the previous theory as you suggest, but since we are talking fiction here, it doesn't have to be something that is likely to ever happen in the real world. Something that stretches reality a little without getting too far afield would suffice. I want to have this discovery made and accepted, although not without a fight, by the scientific community at large and then move on with the rest of the book which examines the people's reactions to this new way of thinking about "how we got here" etc.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by greyseal, posted 09-29-2009 9:56 AM swalker2001 has replied
 Message 19 by Wounded King, posted 09-29-2009 10:24 AM swalker2001 has not replied

  
swalker2001
Junior Member (Idle past 5290 days)
Posts: 12
From: Dallas, TX USA
Joined: 09-28-2009


Message 14 of 39 (526783)
09-29-2009 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Kitsune
09-29-2009 1:57 AM


Ahhh, I remember spending hours on end playing Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy on my PCjr.
Something like that might work but it would be a different story from what I am writing. I changed the title of the thread to remove the reference to "science fiction" because I don't want to go too far down that road.
BTW, I still play Hitchhiker's Guide...but now I play it on my Blackberry.

Steve Walker
Engineer, Author, Social Media Specialist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Kitsune, posted 09-29-2009 1:57 AM Kitsune has not replied

  
swalker2001
Junior Member (Idle past 5290 days)
Posts: 12
From: Dallas, TX USA
Joined: 09-28-2009


Message 18 of 39 (526797)
09-29-2009 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by greyseal
09-29-2009 9:56 AM


Re: i think you don't get the problem...
I guess it doesn't need to say that evolution never happened. Just that it didn't happen by chance and random mutations.
Or maybe I should not try so hard to get the science right. Maybe I should just have something discovered that proves the earth is only 6000 years old. Maybe that is a better premise.
It doesn't have to be likely or even possible, it just has to be a literary device that will get me over the hump from no-God to God.
Again, if that bothers anyone, don't assume that I am going to craft a story where everyone suddenly believes in God and the world changes into a beautiful place where everyone is always smiling and all wars cease and they all live happily ever after. I don't expect that it will go that way...

Steve Walker
Engineer, Author, Social Media Specialist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by greyseal, posted 09-29-2009 9:56 AM greyseal has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Percy, posted 09-29-2009 10:46 AM swalker2001 has replied
 Message 26 by Larni, posted 09-29-2009 1:03 PM swalker2001 has not replied

  
swalker2001
Junior Member (Idle past 5290 days)
Posts: 12
From: Dallas, TX USA
Joined: 09-28-2009


Message 21 of 39 (526821)
09-29-2009 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Blue Jay
09-29-2009 10:08 AM


New approach?
The Tree of Knowledge....hmmm...now there is an idea. I might be able to work with that.
Thanks, Bluejay!
Simplifies a lot of things in the storyline, doesn't it? Also opens up some new possibilities for subplots and allows me to ignore the other options you mentioned...I don't want to get into that much depth on other alternatives.
[BTW--How many of those alternatives have the kind of serious following that ToE and Creation/ID have? I hear you saying that they have enough that they couldn't be ignored in my original scenario but although I have heard all those ideas I didn't think any of them were taken that seriously...]
I will still need new theories and explanations for why the ToE seems to work so well in a lot of ways. But this may be just what I was looking for. Anybody else have thoughts?

Steve Walker
Engineer, Author, Social Media Specialist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Blue Jay, posted 09-29-2009 10:08 AM Blue Jay has not replied

  
swalker2001
Junior Member (Idle past 5290 days)
Posts: 12
From: Dallas, TX USA
Joined: 09-28-2009


Message 22 of 39 (526822)
09-29-2009 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Percy
09-29-2009 10:46 AM


Re: i think you don't get the problem...
Another great post. Thanks.
Between this and the Tree of Knowledge, I now have a much better feeling about coming up with a scenario that will work. This one seems to take me completely away from the notion of a fossil unless some dna is found within the fossil and something about it prompts the discovery of the hidden code....that could work, right?
I am thankful for all the suggestions on how to do this and how NOT to do it...please don't stop because there are so many good ideas in just 12 hours I can only imagine what may be yet to come... :-)

Steve Walker
Engineer, Author, Social Media Specialist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Percy, posted 09-29-2009 10:46 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Percy, posted 09-29-2009 12:24 PM swalker2001 has not replied

  
swalker2001
Junior Member (Idle past 5290 days)
Posts: 12
From: Dallas, TX USA
Joined: 09-28-2009


Message 24 of 39 (526843)
09-29-2009 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Dr Adequate
09-29-2009 11:30 AM


About "Thomas the Proclaimer"
Great story...I must try to find a copy and re-read it. I'm sure there are many other stories that deal with the overall subject I am espousing in some form or fashion. A truly unique story idea is really hard to come by. It is the author's treatment of the story including character development, subplots, tension, etc that will make an audience want to embrace a book (or not).
I don't have any delusions that I can do something better than one of the true masters, Robert Silverberg. But although there are similarities in where I THINK my story may go, I won't know until I get there. And who knows...there just MIGHT be a couple of interesting twists and turns afoot....
I will most certainly see to it that I don't create something that could be considered a sorry clone of a great piece.
Thanks for the response! If anyone else knows of a story or book that is similar in some form or fashion to what I propose, I would be interested in hearing about it for the same reason....

Steve Walker
Engineer, Author, Social Media Specialist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-29-2009 11:30 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
swalker2001
Junior Member (Idle past 5290 days)
Posts: 12
From: Dallas, TX USA
Joined: 09-28-2009


Message 29 of 39 (527073)
09-30-2009 9:22 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by AChristianDarkly
09-29-2009 6:45 PM


Re: The Death Of Evolution
You're definitely talking sci-fi (or Syfy as the cable channel now wants to call it on tv) which is fine.
I need to digest this post further. There is a lot in there to think about. I also am hoping to hear from others on any similar books or stories. Someone mentioned "Thomas the Proclaimer," which I have read, and somebody mentioned "Cryptozoic" by Brian Aldiss, which I have ordered a copy of.
Not sure if what you propose has been done or not...but it is an interesting idea.
Thanks!

Steve Walker
Engineer, Author, Social Media Specialist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by AChristianDarkly, posted 09-29-2009 6:45 PM AChristianDarkly has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Minnemooseus, posted 09-30-2009 5:03 PM swalker2001 has not replied
 Message 31 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-30-2009 7:00 PM swalker2001 has replied

  
swalker2001
Junior Member (Idle past 5290 days)
Posts: 12
From: Dallas, TX USA
Joined: 09-28-2009


Message 32 of 39 (527325)
09-30-2009 8:00 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Dr Adequate
09-30-2009 7:00 PM


Re: The Death Of Evolution
Thanks, Doc. I plan to try and read all of these that people tell me about to stimulate my brain cells and also to try and avoid too much similarity.
I had an incredibly difficult time finding much on the subject...I didn't find this and I didn't find Cryptozoic...but I knew there had to be something out there at least roughly along the same lines.

Steve Walker
Engineer, Author, Social Media Specialist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-30-2009 7:00 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
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