"Friday of the Month" is not your typical way of speaking, but you must not overlook the fact that this man is not a Englishman, the bottom line is there is no missing word here you can view the video of the live broadcast or you can ask the many people who watched TB Joshua make this prophecy.
Do you have a link to this video? The only one I can find has a bunch of cuts in it, including one just before "Friday of the month.". The subtitles indicate this is the end of a sentence, but it doesn't make sense as a complete sentence, so I'm assuming there was something before it.
Unfortunately, this video was broadcast by Emmanuel TV, which was founded by TB Joshua so it is hardly impartial.
I predict that later today a Eurocopter will crash. I am getting a girls name beginning with a 'C', not quite but like a girls name maybe? It is definitely in the South. The helicopter will be associate with the letters 'N', 'A' and 'E' and the numbers 1,4 and 7 are coming through strongly. Three people will die, I feel there is a strong medical presence as if one of the fatally wounded is in medicine. Or maybe two of them are. One of them is definitely a pilot.
There is no reason to suggest that they are impartial just because they don't live up to your world view.
Correct. I can suggest that they might not be impartial because they were founded by the man about whom they are reporting and that they might be tempted to cut out awkward parts because they might rely on funding and funding probably relies on a stream of believers.
I don't have any links to lead you to, however I will ask you to buy a proper dvd package detailing all of these prophecies from their web store on scoan.com.
I'm not going to fund their church, thanks. If it was a geniune prophecy I shouldn't need to pay to see it. So - is there an uncut version of the prophecy that I might view? You seem to indicate that there is not, or at least - I'll need to give money to the prophet to possibly receive one, maybe.
Therefore not only is there video evidence, but there is also eye-witness evidence.
Eye-witnesses are rubbish. I want to see the uncut video footage, thanks.
Since thousands view this live broadcasts on Emmanuel TV in Africa and around the world there is amble evidence to confirm their legitimacy.
And none of those thousands has a copy of the uncut broadcast that they've put online? Shame. Guess there is no uncut evidence for you to present.
Interesting theory, but not likely, this prophecies are made during life broadcasts, and in front of skeptics, doubters and critics.
There are conmen in this world. I am just the simple methods that have been developed over the years to protect myself against them. Maybe the prophecies are made during live broadcasts in front of all the people you say they did. The question is - are they the same as the prophecies that are later released by Emmanuel TV after the event as evidence of some power?
The only way we can know this with any confidence is with an uncut recording of the prophecy.
Not everyone who goes to a SCOAN meeting is there for the word you know, and since thousands of random people attend the SCOAN from all over, to pull such a stunt is not only risky but foolish.
Many Conmen can still make money on a con even after their con is revealed.
If the recordings were messed with the thousands of people that were in attendance and were viewing live can point it out.
Maybe, maybe not. I certainly don't remember the exact wording somebody used in a speech I heard over a month ago.
What evidence can you provide for your claim.
Check out the cut for yourself at about 33 seconds in, just before "Friday of the month".
How do you know there were cuts.
1. The camera angle changes with a fade. 2. He says "something happens in the air.", and then puts his arms down. The next thing he says is "Friday of the month" and his right hand starts as being raised. 3. The intonation implies it was the last part of a sentence, not a complete sentence that makes no sense on its own.
abe: There is another unusual cut at about 59 seconds in,
"if you are moving with family, your children, yourself,"
Camera cut, Joshua changes position and says "please read..." and his tone changes considerably suggesting the two fragments weren't part of the same sentence originally.
I have seen many SCOAN productions and their videos are of good sound and picture quality that footage you saw is probably of poor qaulity that is why I suggested you get a dvd version from the SCOAN.
The quality doesn't change the camera cut. It can be in glorious HD and it will still be there.
Why? How would they know, how could they prove it? Do they have the live uncut tape? If they do, or anyone else does, why is it not out there?
listen here it is highly unlikely I mean highly that out of all the thousands of people that attend the SCOAN meetings not even one critic is present
Why?
but the fact is critics do attend the services and in large amounts, just some time back a critic from Europe attended the services and came back with the conclusion that the works of this man are genuine there are many other documented cases of critics who attend the SCOAN even murder attempts.
What amounts? As for the European fellow, do we have evidence he was a critic beforehand? Further: many (if not all) people consider themselves sceptical of these things (nobody wants to be seen as gullible!), yet many people believe these things. Therefore it is not unusual for someone to report that they were sceptical to begin with,but now they believe.
There was a test done where an audience was asked to watch a magician perform startling 'psychic feats'. One group, the magician claimed to be a real psychic and in another he stressed that he was just using simple tricks, misdirection, sleight of hand etc to achieve the effect and that he was definitely not a real psychic.
The result? If I recall correctly it went as followed: Of those that were told he was a real psychic, a significant number of the audience believed he really was. I'm willing to bet some of them claim to have been originally sceptical of the claim.
Of those that were told it was illusion and showmanship, some of them still thought that he had psychic powers!
Now what I would like to say is this, critics and haters and skeptics and everyone want to verify if this guy is a fraud or the real deal, its only likely that in the case of a prophecy they would jot down his exact words that in case the prophecy fails they can use that against his ministry.
If this is true, then maybe one of these plentiful critics or haters recorded the prophecy in full as it was broadcast live and, having been converted to a believer by the sheer weight of the evidence, released that footage to the public and is now somewhere on the internet?
All I'm asking for is the uncut prophecy. Maybe he really did make a stunning prophecy, but how can I know if the only evidence I have is a cut piece of video?
Truly it is highly unlikely that people don't jot down his prophecies as he tells them. Just use your mind here.
It wouldn't surprise me if they didn't. But if they are broadcast live, I'd at least expect some of these sceptics to record it. Much easier on the hands, and less prone to error.
As to the clip ,I can't view it, my server won't allow it. But I encourage to get the original tapes from the SCOAN web store with better quality and if you still see the cuts there, you have reason then to be suspicious.
As I said, I'm not going to give a potential con man some money and ask him to give me some tapes that, if he is a con man will likely have the same kind of cuts on it. All I would have done is fund the conman and gained no more evidence than I started with. If you want to prove he is a miracle man, you give him your money and then ask them for permission to put the whole uncut prophecy on youtube for the world to see the power of the Lord.
I'm sure very sure that since it was a prophecy they either jotted it down somewhere, and they would not easily put it out of their minds but be watchful and alert for any fulfillment of the prophecy, in fact they were asked to pray on this particular prophecy and because of that also they wouldn't easily forget what it entailed.
But nobody thought to record the show?
This doesn't prove anything it doesn't prove that the same thing is going on at the SCOAN until you have evidence that this is going on your claim is but only a claim.
It proves that being convinced something is true, even if you claim to have been a sceptic does not prove that you haven't been duped. It proves that the tendency to believe can be so powerful that even if the person denies they have a power to their faces, some people will still believe.
the I suggest you do some asking around and please like I said order the dvd's from the web store.
I am asking you, aren't I? I have told you why I am not going to buy any DVDs at this time, twice.
Each of these Sunday services are broadcast live to this day.
And yet nobody recorded it, and the original owners of the tapes have never published the full thing since? As I said, it's a shame because it means we have to discount this one as being evidence of a prophecy.
In that case why do you complain. If you don't wanna make an effort to confirm this prophecy stop complaining.
I'm not complaining. I'm just pointing out that this man might be a conman and I'd like to see certain evidence that would enable me to fully understand what this man claims to have foreseen so that I can judge whether or not it is evidence of prophecy.
You seem upset that I don't take his word for it, that I don't take the word of the TV company he founded (which also claims he prophesized the exact day of the crash, but for some reason didn't show that bit). And SCOAN's website has a 'confirmation' video which is the Emmanuel TV news report (which shows the same clips twice).
So erm, I'm sorry I don't believe you based on your say so about how many scpetics attend, and how many of them jot down every word he says but don't record the live broadcasts.
We are talking about thousands of people here its highly unlikely that all will be deceived if any deceiving is going on.
Thousands of people attend psychics, mediums, and healers in mega churches in the US and huge numbers believe what is happening. It is entirely possible that most people do believe - the question I am asking is, do they have a good reason to? And to know that I'd like to see the full footage. Otherwise I will suspect that the misses have been cut out. Mediums tend to have a lot of misses, as do other 'prophets', which they try to pretend never happened and as long as they don't draw attention to them, people tend to forget they were there - even those that say they were sceptical.
So to know for sure, I just want the full footage. I'm sure neither of us wants to be taken in by a conman, even if he is a very successful one so I'm sure you appreciate why I would want to do this.
Or is there another prophecy this man has given, for which full uncut footage definitely does exist? That might be interesting...surely between all those critics and sceptics they didn't forget to record the live broadcast every time did they?
My warning bells chime at some of the more recent allegations about his deceptions and fraud as well as his harem, and his extortion (you want to be a disciple, then you must buy his DVDs!). So I'm not going to start believing based on the little evidence I have available, sorry.
How can you be sure that nobody has recored it, just because it doesn't appear on the web it doesn't mean that nobody has recorded it.
Quite right - it was a shortening of my actual argument which is expanded elsewhere.
It doesn't mean that because it is possible to be duped that the SCOAN is involved in duping people, you would think this because what goes on inside that church disagrees with everything you love and hold dear.
I am not using this evidence to assert that this church is involved in deception, there is other evidence that might lead to that conclusion. I am just pointing out that when you trollied out the old 'sceptic who was converted' line, it doesn't mean there is something to it since that is exactly what we would see if deception was taking place.
If that's your final decision then I have no say in it. But I still think it would be wise to buy the original and compare it with the streamed clip you presented here.
If you think it is wise to give money to a potential conman as a means of testing if they are a conman then you go right ahead and do that. Incidentally, my uncle was a lawyer to a Nigerian prince...
I understand your strong desire to be very sure of the facts before accepting anything, but you are being very unfair, because you are approaching this issue with a clear-cut prejudice, you are not after the truth, in my opinion, its evident.
We all approach issues with prejudice, and we are all after the truth. I am just trying to make sure that prejudices have less of an impact on my decision making when it comes to believing someone has powers. It is an easy thing to fake it well enough to convince thousands, millions even of people. So I want to be sure that this case is not one of the many dupes using very similar techniques that I've come across before.
From the start you have concluded that this guy must be charlatan, even before letting the evidence speak, that is why you don't want to secure anything from his web store, because you believe that he is a conman.
No - I just concluded that this is the same setup a conman might use to get money from people. Whether or not he is, remains to be seen. Unfortunately you have presented no evidence which differentiates him from a con man. Since being a conman is more common than being a prophet, I conclude there is a reasonable chance this man is conman, but he might not be and I'd like to see some evidence that suggests he isn't.
Are you kidding that is rare, and when its considered along with the evidence I give in my posts, it becomes fatally rare
So what is the probability there will be at least one fatal crash in a commercial plane between 17th to the 28th day of a month?
Just the 17th: 25% (using your figures) Either 17th or the 18th: 44% the 17th or the 18th or the 19th: 58% and so on 17th, thru 28th inclusive (12 days): 97%
If something happens 97% of the time it is common. These numbers a low for reasons already explained. Therefore the probability that any Tom, Dick or Harry could successfully make this prediction without the need of a divine hand, is greater than 97%.
being struck by lightning? (1 in 20 million)
But if I were to predict that someone in the USA were to be fatally struck by lightning (48 times per year) this October, I have about a 98% probability of my 'prophecy' coming true.
quote:later today a Eurocopter will crash. I am getting a girls name beginning with a 'C', not quite but like a girls name maybe? It is definitely in the South. The helicopter will be associated with the letters 'N', 'A' and 'E' and the numbers 1,4 and 7 are coming through strongly. Three people will die, I feel there is a strong medical presence as if one of the fatally wounded is in medicine. Or maybe two of them are. One of them is definitely a pilot.
and lo and behold,
quote:Omniflight Helicopters, Inc. regretfully confirms that an American Eurocopter AS350B2 helicopter, which took off from Charleston, S.C. airport at approximately 23:08 on Friday, September 25/09, crashed shortly after takeoff 63 miles southwest of Conway, S.C.
All three people on board, including the pilot, paramedic, flight nurse, were fatally injured in the tragic accident.
Cedre wants to talk about miracles. I doubt it is as miraculous as that time Kris Angel survived a building collapsing on him, and then walked on water, but I'm eager to see what he does...
Re: Desperate atheist resorting to desperate measures
Modulous altered his prediction after the event in question took place. Yes you read right, he edited the content of his prediction so that it aligns with the event he was supposed to predict and the proof is there for anyone who is willing to see. His prediction in his message 81 was fiddled with yesterday, Tue, 29-September-2009, 4:15 PM: and guess what? No reason given
What was the reason for the edits in Joshua's video evidence for his prophecy? None given. What was the original message? Not known. When did the edits happen? After the event.
Since you don't have this information about either of us, why are you assuming the worst of me, but the best of him?
Wow Modulous how professional of you,
I admit that I'm not a professional con artist. If I was, I'd have actually asked for you to buy my DVDs for $40 each that might (or might not) demonstrate that the unedited post contained the prediction as written.
But what strikes me as odd is that nobody, of all the thousands of people watching this website, wrote down my words at the time.
Re: Desperate atheist resorting to desperate measures
You have no direct prove that TB Joshua's videos are altered and just based on a single clip you have seen, and its not even the original, you want to write them all off as having been edited.
I have direct evidence that the only video evidence I have of the prophecy being made was edited. You failed to provide a better one despite having an interest in finding it so I assume that the video is not currently accessible to the public.
I am not writing off all publically available videos of prophecies as being edited. I am writing off the video evidence that I have seen as edited. If you have a non-edited video of a prophecy please provide it.
Now - if you happen to know of a skeptic (not a critic, since many of the critics of Joshua aren't skeptics since they believe he is prophetic - but think he is doing the work of satan or some other agent) who has seen a live prophecy that has later been touted as coming true and who agrees that the prophecy was as is claimed...then we have something to go on.
Otherwise I'm going to have to remain skeptical since you have not provided anything that discriminates him from a conman. Sorry if that bothers you. If you can't take me seriously because of that, then so be it. I won't lose sleep over you not taking me seriously.
If you want me to be convinced that the man gave the prophecies that you say he did, I have provided the level of evidence I would want to be convinced of this. Either you have that evidence and I will be convinced or you don't and I won't.
I'm interested in seeing the original video but I haven't tried to find one as I'm currently having trouble with my browser , for some reason that is unknown to me it refuses to show any video.
Nightmare. If you want, you can try posting at Computer Help II - we might disagree but we can put aside those disagreements to help solve an IT issue!
Why won't other kinds of critics apart from skeptics suffice, for starters any critic of TB Joshua is skeptical of his claims, in fact I think that the critics might be more critical of TB Joshua because unlike the general skeptics these critics don't like TB Joshua a lot, and I see no reason that you should not regard their evaluation of the situation
I differentiate between those that believe he is prophesising but using non-YHWH type sources (African witchcraft etc) and those that doubt he can predict the future at all. Use whatever names you will, but its the latter I'm interested in, not the former.
To my present knowledge I know of no critic who has accused TB Joshua of employing deception in his prophecies, If you do let's have a name.
Paul Agomoh.
My job is not to convince, my job is only to present the facts, I let the facts do the convincing. Anyway the best you can do is to be skeptical of his prophetic claims and healing ministry that all you got at this point.
This is a debate, your job is to put up a persuasive argument in favour of your position. You haven't just presented the facts, but you have attempted to explain why those facts mean TB Joshua is a 'modern day miracle man'.
O no it doesn't bother me as much as it probably bothers you, but you should know I'm not member of the SCOAN, and I have no ties and affiliations with the SCOAN, my only use for the SCOAN is to demonstrate that there is evidence for the supernatural realm, and so far you are failing to falsify any of the facts I brought forth.
Some facts don't need falsifying because they are not in dispute. Others have been falsified, such as the claim that fatal aircraft accidents don't occur commonly. The problem is that you need to justify why the facts are evidence for the supernatural realm, which you have failed to do. Professional magicians do more amazing things than anything you have presented TB Joshua doing.
Did you ever see Derren Brown's work? He managed to convert several atheists into believing in some kind of God, he predicted the lottery numbers one week (live - I watched it), he has played Russian Roulette and predicted which chamber the bullet was in, and he has made someone reel off a bunch of random numbers that just happen to be the serial number on a banknote in the pocket of another specified person.
Much more compelling. Only Derren Brown admits he uses trickery to achieve his effects.
Is there anything TB Joshua has done which is as impressive as the above that you claim is not done by trickery?
As for me the existing evidence is quite enough at least in causing me to take this man seriously and not simply brush him off as a common charlatan more so when I have found no evidence against him.
As you say, charlatans are common and they do all the same kinds of things TB Joshua does. Genuine miracle men are quite rare. Let us say that the aircraft predictions aren't evidence enough, do you have anything else?
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