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Author Topic:   Living fossils expose evolution
Dr Jack
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Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


(2)
Message 226 of 416 (527380)
10-01-2009 8:03 AM
Reply to: Message 225 by Calypsis4
10-01-2009 7:54 AM


Re: Atomic bombs?
The fossil organisms that I have posted in comparison with their living offspring, although not always the same species are certainly within the same family and they reveal no change.
As I pointed out in message 159, and Lithodid-Man has diligently documented throughout the thread, this is not true. In fact, the majority of the examples you have given are from different families.
But, again, you haven't answered the question posed. Why, in what way, are any of these evidence against evolution? The very term you are using - living fossils - comes from Darwin himself. Why do you think that examples of limited change constitute an argument against evolution?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by Calypsis4, posted 10-01-2009 7:54 AM Calypsis4 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 228 by Calypsis4, posted 10-01-2009 8:06 AM Dr Jack has seen this message but not replied

Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 5214 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 227 of 416 (527381)
10-01-2009 8:03 AM
Reply to: Message 221 by Dr Jack
10-01-2009 4:54 AM


Re: Whales don't breath water!
Whales don't obtain oxygen from water! Nor do any of the other marine mammals. What do you think a whales blowhole is for? Why do you think they come to the surface to breath? It's because they breath air just as we do.
That statement is erroneous. Yes, whales are marine mammals that breathe oxygen from the atmosphere directly. Most other marine creation take in water and their lungs absorb the oxygen in the water.
"A fish breathes by absorbing oxygen from the water it drinks. Water flows into the mouth, through the gills, and out of the body through gill slits. As water flows through the gills, the oxygen it contains passes into blood circulating through gill structures called filaments and lamellae. At the same time, carbon dioxide in the fish’s bloodstream passes into the water and is carried out of the body." msn encarta.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by Dr Jack, posted 10-01-2009 4:54 AM Dr Jack has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 230 by Wounded King, posted 10-01-2009 8:10 AM Calypsis4 has replied

Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 5214 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 228 of 416 (527385)
10-01-2009 8:06 AM
Reply to: Message 226 by Dr Jack
10-01-2009 8:03 AM


Re: Atomic bombs?
In fact, the majority of the examples you have given are from different families.
No they are not.
Why, in what way, are any of these evidence against evolution?
Answered that already...repeatedly to you and to other posters. It should be obvious. Why it isn't is not my problem.
Have a nice day.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by Dr Jack, posted 10-01-2009 8:03 AM Dr Jack has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 234 by Huntard, posted 10-01-2009 8:22 AM Calypsis4 has replied

Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 5214 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 229 of 416 (527387)
10-01-2009 8:10 AM
Reply to: Message 210 by Granny Magda
09-30-2009 6:44 PM


Re: Why Does Any of This Matter?
It is disgusting to me that hypocritical Chrsitians insist on lying about what I have said.
I am not letting you get under my skin.
I will let the moderator decided if the personal attack is within the rules of this board.
Nonetheless, have a nice day.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Granny Magda, posted 09-30-2009 6:44 PM Granny Magda has not replied

Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


(1)
Message 230 of 416 (527388)
10-01-2009 8:10 AM
Reply to: Message 227 by Calypsis4
10-01-2009 8:03 AM


Re: Whales don't breath water!
That statement is erroneous.
Can you actually identify the erroneous part of the statement? Specifically.
You are now specifically talking about non-mammalian marine organisms whereas Mr. Jack was talking about marine mammals. You originally said ...
Everyone knows that marine creatures survive on oxygen in the water.
So it appears it was your statement that was erroneous due to inexactitude.
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by Calypsis4, posted 10-01-2009 8:03 AM Calypsis4 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 233 by Calypsis4, posted 10-01-2009 8:22 AM Wounded King has not replied

caffeine
Member (Idle past 1024 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


(1)
Message 231 of 416 (527389)
10-01-2009 8:10 AM
Reply to: Message 224 by Calypsis4
10-01-2009 7:41 AM


Re: The fossil record: the geologic column
This is a fossil fish found in China discovered in Cambrian rock. That era is dated 500 million yrs by evolutionists and we are told that there were no vertebrates living during that time.
By who? As with mammals in the age of the dinosaurs, it's not a problem for natural history as we know it to find fish in the Cambrian. From wikipedia:
quote:
Vertebrates originated about 525 million years ago during the Cambrian explosion, which is an event of massive rise in organism diversity that occurred in the Cambrian period.
Now, that little picture's not good enough for my untrained eye to guess at what it is - do you have a bigger resolution? It looks like some sort of jawless vertebrate but, significantly, doesn't appear to look like any extant jawless vertebrate (hagfish and lampreys). To demonstrate that species haven't changed, you're showing us a primitive fish (or perhaps some other early vertebrate) very different to the fish around today.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by Calypsis4, posted 10-01-2009 7:41 AM Calypsis4 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by Calypsis4, posted 10-01-2009 8:18 AM caffeine has replied
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Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 5214 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 232 of 416 (527390)
10-01-2009 8:18 AM
Reply to: Message 231 by caffeine
10-01-2009 8:10 AM


Re: The fossil record: the geologic column
By who? As with mammals in the age of the dinosaurs, it's not a problem for natural history as we know it to find fish in the Cambrian. From wikipedia:
The very fact that you are not aware of what has transpired in China reveals just how well western scientific community has ignored the discoveries there. But I have read plenty of it on the Internet alone.
The statement from Wikipedia represents a big shift in evolutionary explanations which for decades was that there were no vertebrates in the Cambrian period. I have personally read and listened to many public debates on this point alone and evolutionists took the position that there were no vertebrates in the Cambrian.
Even so, what Wikipedia says does not explain the abrupt appearance of complex life in the Cambrian because there are no transitionals leading up to it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 231 by caffeine, posted 10-01-2009 8:10 AM caffeine has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 256 by caffeine, posted 10-01-2009 11:13 AM Calypsis4 has replied

Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 5214 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 233 of 416 (527392)
10-01-2009 8:22 AM
Reply to: Message 230 by Wounded King
10-01-2009 8:10 AM


Re: Whales don't breath water!
"Can you actually identify the erroneous part of the statement? Specifically."
Yes, thinking that I thought that whales 'breathe' water. I did not say that nor do I believe such a thing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by Wounded King, posted 10-01-2009 8:10 AM Wounded King has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by Dr Jack, posted 10-01-2009 8:39 AM Calypsis4 has replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


(2)
Message 234 of 416 (527393)
10-01-2009 8:22 AM
Reply to: Message 228 by Calypsis4
10-01-2009 8:06 AM


Re: Atomic bombs?
Calypsis4 writes:
No they are not.
Yes they are, as Mr. Jack wrote in Message 159
Mr. jack writes:
The magnolia - yup, same Genus. Cool, they're a kind.
The nautiluses - same family, same kind.
The crayfish - nope, different families, different kinds
The bats - nope, different families so different kinds
The scorpionflies - again, different families so different kinds
The 'gliding lizards' - different orders (in case you don't know, Orders are above Families in the classification system) so definetly different kinds
Ditto the brittle stars
The "possoms" - nope, different subclasses! Even further out! Different kinds
Tigers and Hyenas, unsurprisingly, are different families
You say he was incorrect in stating this? Why?

I hunt for the truth
I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.
-Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by Calypsis4, posted 10-01-2009 8:06 AM Calypsis4 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 236 by Calypsis4, posted 10-01-2009 8:46 AM Huntard has replied

Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


(1)
Message 235 of 416 (527397)
10-01-2009 8:39 AM
Reply to: Message 233 by Calypsis4
10-01-2009 8:22 AM


Re: Whales don't breath water!
Yes, thinking that I thought that whales 'breathe' water. I did not say that nor do I believe such a thing.
Okay, my apologies. Could you explain what you meant when you said "How did it change its breathing apparatus without drowning itself?" in message 140?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by Calypsis4, posted 10-01-2009 8:22 AM Calypsis4 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by Calypsis4, posted 10-01-2009 8:52 AM Dr Jack has seen this message but not replied

Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 5214 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 236 of 416 (527399)
10-01-2009 8:46 AM
Reply to: Message 234 by Huntard
10-01-2009 8:22 AM


Re: Atomic bombs?
The magnolia - yup, same Genus. Cool, they're a kind.
The nautiluses - same family, same kind.
'The crayfish - nope, different families, different kinds
The bats - nope, different families so different kinds
The scorpionflies - again, different families so different kinds
The 'gliding lizards' - different orders (in case you don't know, Orders are above Families in the classification system) so definetly different kinds
Ditto the brittle stars
The "possoms" - nope, different subclasses! Even further out! Different kinds
Tigers and Hyenas, unsurprisingly, are different families'
That is purely your opinion. I disagree.
1. Magnolias; The magnolias were of the same family. Why did you bring this up? (Me: 1, you:zero)
2. Nautilus: why did you bring this up? (Me: 2, you: zero)
3. Crayfish: You didn't tell the truth. You cannot determine that the fossil crayfish is a different kind than what was posted in the picture because it is too obscure to determine the details.
4. bat: Nope, you are dead wrong and I posted a detailed diagram of a skeleton that one can make a point by point comparison. (Me: 3, you: zero)
5. Scropionflies: different SPECIES, not different family. (Me 4, you: zero)
6. gliding lizards: we will arm wrestle over this one. I answered this that scientists in different parts of the world classify it differently. (secondly, don't give me a condescending attitude by telling me that 'in case you don't know, Orders are above Families in the classification system'...something I taught for 26 yrs and memorized since the 7th grade.)
7. possums: That's nuts! Then the evolutionists have classified Gobiconodon in error because the fossil and the modern skeleton are virtually identical!
8. Brittle stars: You don't read carefully. The illustration I posted said, 'Ophiarachenella' (species undetermined). I claim this point because the fossil and the living offspring are identical. (Me: 5, you: zero).
9. Tigers & Hyenas: I made the point that if there was a mistake here then it was that AOL posted a hyena skull in the tiger section of its 'pictures of tigers' format. They are very similar. (Me:5, you: 1)
Have a nice day.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by Huntard, posted 10-01-2009 8:22 AM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 242 by Huntard, posted 10-01-2009 9:11 AM Calypsis4 has replied
 Message 243 by Dr Jack, posted 10-01-2009 9:14 AM Calypsis4 has replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 237 of 416 (527400)
10-01-2009 8:48 AM


Moderator on Duty
I'm now actively moderating this thread. Please follow the Forum Guidelines. Perhaps my request from last night had an effect, I don't know, but I see no problems in this thread at present.
For those who feel they are experiencing problems in discussion, do not try to handle these yourself. These can be reported at Report discussion problems here: No.2.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 5214 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 238 of 416 (527403)
10-01-2009 8:52 AM
Reply to: Message 235 by Dr Jack
10-01-2009 8:39 AM


Re: Whales don't breath water!
Okay, my apologies. Could you explain what you meant when you said "How did it change its breathing apparatus without drowning itself?
Sure. Land animals drown by breathing water into their lungs. Marine creatures (whale types excluded) 'drown' by breathing oxygen directly from the atmosphere. So how did the first marine creatures that came to land (long before whales 'evolved' on to the land and later back into the ocean) survive their first exposure to the atmosphere and what genetic mechanism changes things so that they can do so.
I can answer that for you: No one knows because such a thing is not developing among marine creatures in our world for observation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by Dr Jack, posted 10-01-2009 8:39 AM Dr Jack has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 239 by Admin, posted 10-01-2009 9:02 AM Calypsis4 has not replied
 Message 240 by Calypsis4, posted 10-01-2009 9:10 AM Calypsis4 has replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 239 of 416 (527406)
10-01-2009 9:02 AM
Reply to: Message 238 by Calypsis4
10-01-2009 8:52 AM


Re: Whales don't breath water!
There's a new thread for this topic: Evolution of Air-breathing Tetrapods

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by Calypsis4, posted 10-01-2009 8:52 AM Calypsis4 has not replied

Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 5214 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 240 of 416 (527407)
10-01-2009 9:10 AM
Reply to: Message 238 by Calypsis4
10-01-2009 8:52 AM


Re: Whales don't breath water!
Now, proceeding with even more evidence that biological evolution has never occurred in our world:
Then this:
Again, organisms that show no change despite the 'millions of years' that have supposedly transpired.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by Calypsis4, posted 10-01-2009 8:52 AM Calypsis4 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 244 by Calypsis4, posted 10-01-2009 9:19 AM Calypsis4 has not replied
 Message 245 by Admin, posted 10-01-2009 9:20 AM Calypsis4 has not replied
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