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Author Topic:   Questions about the living cell
Granny Magda
Member (Idle past 74 days)
Posts: 2384
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007


Message 61 of 182 (527586)
10-01-2009 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Calypsis4
10-01-2009 6:43 PM


Re: Some answers
You ask;

Is that sufficient?

No, it's not.

This is a science forum. You are expected to base your arguments upon the kind of evidence that a scientist might recognise. "It says so in my holy book." doesn't cut it, not least because it says something completely different in someone else's favourite holy book.

Mutate and Survive


"A curious aspect of the theory of evolution is that everybody thinks he understands it." - Jacques Monod

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Calypsis4, posted 10-01-2009 6:43 PM Calypsis4 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Calypsis4, posted 10-01-2009 7:08 PM Granny Magda has replied

  
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2199
Joined: 07-15-2003


(1)
Message 62 of 182 (527587)
10-01-2009 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Calypsis4
10-01-2009 6:48 PM


Re: Facts?
Calypsis4 writes:

The You Tube production was guesswork. No one knows what the supposed first living cell was like or even if it was a eukaryote or a prokaryote.

So? It's a model. No one says it's the absolute truth. But this model is a lot more plausible than "poof".


"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Calypsis4, posted 10-01-2009 6:48 PM Calypsis4 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Calypsis4, posted 10-01-2009 7:02 PM Parasomnium has replied

  
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 4453 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 63 of 182 (527588)
10-01-2009 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by cavediver
10-01-2009 6:28 PM


Re: Facts?
finding some that say "matter" might help your cause

Your condescedning attitude is beggining to bother me, professor.

Einstein said that 'matter' and 'energy' were interchangeable terms. So whom should we believe; Einstein or those like you?

Concerning the 1st Law of Thermo. Who should we believe: virtually every science textbook in the last 100 yrs which tells us that matter can neither be created nor destroyed or individuals like you who think you can magically whip up matter?

But if you're really talking about quantum physics then say so and we can drop this matter. The quantum world is a weird world of Alice and Wonderland possiblities.

I know we're off topic. We will take it up elsewhere.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by cavediver, posted 10-01-2009 6:28 PM cavediver has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by cavediver, posted 10-01-2009 7:19 PM Calypsis4 has replied
 Message 92 by onifre, posted 10-02-2009 11:42 AM Calypsis4 has replied

  
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 4453 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 64 of 182 (527589)
10-01-2009 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Parasomnium
10-01-2009 7:00 PM


Re: Facts?
So? It's a model. No one says it's the absolute truth. But this model is a lot more plausible than "poof".

Not unless you can demonstrate it.

The truth is...you can't.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Parasomnium, posted 10-01-2009 7:00 PM Parasomnium has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Parasomnium, posted 10-01-2009 7:11 PM Calypsis4 has replied
 Message 79 by mark24, posted 10-02-2009 3:38 AM Calypsis4 has replied
 Message 90 by Dman, posted 10-02-2009 10:27 AM Calypsis4 has taken no action

  
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 4453 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 65 of 182 (527591)
10-01-2009 7:08 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Granny Magda
10-01-2009 6:58 PM


Re: Some answers
This is a science forum. You are expected to base your arguments upon the kind of evidence that a scientist might recognise. "It says so in my holy book

This website is called 'creation vs evolution'. Has that occurred to you? DO you even think about where you are right now? So if you don't wish to encounter discussion about the Creator then you better look elsewhere because that is the main topic of this website.

'My holy book' also happens to be the historical account of the creation, fall of man, the incarnation of God's Son, and the redemption of mankind by Him. Like it or not, the symbol of the crucified One is on every single cell in your body.

AND...we are right on topic!

Now try and tell me that Laminin is not scientific.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Granny Magda, posted 10-01-2009 6:58 PM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Granny Magda, posted 10-01-2009 7:29 PM Calypsis4 has replied
 Message 76 by bluescat48, posted 10-01-2009 10:18 PM Calypsis4 has replied
 Message 82 by Dr Jack, posted 10-02-2009 5:17 AM Calypsis4 has replied

  
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2199
Joined: 07-15-2003


(2)
Message 66 of 182 (527593)
10-01-2009 7:11 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Calypsis4
10-01-2009 7:02 PM


Re: Facts?
Calypsis4 writes:

Not unless you can demonstrate it.

The truth is...you can't.

I don't have to. Parts of it are already fact.
Fact: lipids form vesicles
Fact: polymers can form spontaneously
Fact: monomers can penetrate lipid vesicles
Fact: polymers can't

So it has been partially demonstrated.

Want to talk about "poof" now? Shall we compare the plausibility of a model that's been partially demonstrated, with "poof"?


"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Calypsis4, posted 10-01-2009 7:02 PM Calypsis4 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by Calypsis4, posted 10-01-2009 7:20 PM Parasomnium has replied

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 2883 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


(1)
Message 67 of 182 (527595)
10-01-2009 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Calypsis4
10-01-2009 7:01 PM


Re: Facts?
Your condescedning attitude is beggining to bother me, professor.

Cool

Einstein said that 'matter' and 'energy' were interchangeable terms.

No, he didn't. Ever.

Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Calypsis4, posted 10-01-2009 7:01 PM Calypsis4 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Calypsis4, posted 10-01-2009 7:22 PM cavediver has replied

  
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 4453 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 68 of 182 (527596)
10-01-2009 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Parasomnium
10-01-2009 7:11 PM


Re: Facts?
I don't have to. Parts of it are already fact.
Fact: lipids form vesicles
Fact: polymers can form spontaneously
Fact: monomers can penetrate lipid vesicles
Fact: polymers can't

None of which even comes close to replicating proteins for life.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Parasomnium, posted 10-01-2009 7:11 PM Parasomnium has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Parasomnium, posted 10-01-2009 7:30 PM Calypsis4 has taken no action
 Message 73 by cavediver, posted 10-01-2009 7:33 PM Calypsis4 has replied

  
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 4453 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 69 of 182 (527597)
10-01-2009 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by cavediver
10-01-2009 7:19 PM


Re: Facts?
Cool

I see.

Have a nice time posting to the other board members, professor.

Good evening.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by cavediver, posted 10-01-2009 7:19 PM cavediver has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by cavediver, posted 10-01-2009 7:29 PM Calypsis4 has taken no action

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 2883 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 70 of 182 (527602)
10-01-2009 7:29 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Calypsis4
10-01-2009 7:22 PM


Re: Facts?
Have a nice time posting to the other board members, professor.

Given that you have ignored every difficult question posed to you, it's not going to make much difference You're really not doing any better than in your other thread are you?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Calypsis4, posted 10-01-2009 7:22 PM Calypsis4 has taken no action

  
Granny Magda
Member (Idle past 74 days)
Posts: 2384
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007


Message 71 of 182 (527603)
10-01-2009 7:29 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Calypsis4
10-01-2009 7:08 PM


Re: Some answers
This website is called 'creation vs evolution'. Has that occurred to you? DO you even think about where you are right now? So if you don't wish to encounter discussion about the Creator then you better look elsewhere because that is the main topic of this website.

It's not that. It's more that "It says so in a book" is not recognised as scientific evidence and this happens to be a science forum. If you must drag your imaginary friend into it, you would be better off in the "Faith and Belief" forums.

You are more than entitled to your religious views, but pretending that they are science isn't going to cut it.

'My holy book' also happens to be the historical account of the creation, fall of man, the incarnation of God's Son, and the redemption of mankind by Him. Like it or not, the symbol of the crucified One is on every single cell in your body.

Just this morning though, I found a grilled cheese sandwich with the face of Richard Dawkins on it...

Now try and tell me that Laminin is not scientific.

Laminin is neither scientific nor non-scientific. It's just laminin. It's what you do with the observation that makes it science.

"Laminin-looks-a-bit-like-a-cross-so-Jesus-is-Lord!" is about as far away from science as it's possible to get without actually turning into Deepak Chopra.

Mutate and Survive


"A curious aspect of the theory of evolution is that everybody thinks he understands it." - Jacques Monod

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Calypsis4, posted 10-01-2009 7:08 PM Calypsis4 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by Parasomnium, posted 10-01-2009 7:35 PM Granny Magda has taken no action
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Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2199
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 72 of 182 (527605)
10-01-2009 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Calypsis4
10-01-2009 7:20 PM


Re: Facts?
None of which [facts] even comes close to replicating proteins for life.

That's a matter of opinion, but at least they have left the starting blocks, which is more than we can say for the "poof" theory.


"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Calypsis4, posted 10-01-2009 7:20 PM Calypsis4 has taken no action

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 2883 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


(2)
Message 73 of 182 (527606)
10-01-2009 7:33 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Calypsis4
10-01-2009 7:20 PM


Re: Facts?
None of which even comes close to replicating proteins for life.

Huh? What do you think those polymers are? They are the proto-proteins. And in the video, you can see the early mechanism for replication. The amazing thing is that the early polymers were just random chemicals with no relation to the lipid vesicles that contained them. But evolution kicks in even at this exceptionally early stage, and "useful" polymers, from the perspective of replicating vesicles, simply dominate. Mind-blowing in its simplicity and implication.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Calypsis4, posted 10-01-2009 7:20 PM Calypsis4 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by Calypsis4, posted 10-01-2009 9:05 PM cavediver has taken no action

  
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2199
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 74 of 182 (527607)
10-01-2009 7:35 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Granny Magda
10-01-2009 7:29 PM


Re: Some answers
Granny Magda writes:

"Laminin-looks-a-bit-like-a-cross-so-Jesus-is-Lord!" is about as far away from science as it's possible to get without actually turning into Deepak Chopra.

Hahahahahahahaha!

(I am going to laugh myself to sleep now. See you all tomorrow.)

Edited by Parasomnium, : Going to bed.

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Off-topic banner. Actually, is non-topic material - Blather and noise.


"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Granny Magda, posted 10-01-2009 7:29 PM Granny Magda has taken no action

  
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 4453 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 75 of 182 (527618)
10-01-2009 9:05 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by cavediver
10-01-2009 7:33 PM


Re: Facts?
removed

Edited by Calypsis4, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by cavediver, posted 10-01-2009 7:33 PM cavediver has taken no action

  
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