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Author Topic:   Questions about the living cell
Dr Jack
Member (Idle past 444 days)
Posts: 3507
From: Leicester, England
Joined: 07-14-2003


(1)
Message 91 of 182 (527705)
10-02-2009 10:32 AM
Reply to: Message 88 by Calypsis4
10-02-2009 9:57 AM


Re: Laminin Shaminin
Don't be ridiculous, it's clearly much closer to the Rod of Hermes - look at how those b1 and b2 chains are wrapped around the central a chain - it's a demonstration on earth of Zeus's influence.

How can any honest person deny that?

Your argument is absurd. It bares, at most a passing resemblance to a cross. It's remarkably unsurprising that among the thousands of proteins involved in the human body there is one that bares a passing resemblance to the cross. Especially when don't care about things like, whether it's arms are straight. Of course, by those standards you can find plenty of other symbols in there if you like: there's loads of pentagrams, for example, and quite a number of swastikas. Does this mean Hitler is God? Or that the Pagans were right all along?

Edited by Mr Jack, : Grammar and clarity


This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Calypsis4, posted 10-02-2009 9:57 AM Calypsis4 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by Calypsis4, posted 10-02-2009 1:36 PM Dr Jack has responded

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 1290 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(4)
Message 92 of 182 (527718)
10-02-2009 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by Calypsis4
10-01-2009 7:01 PM


Re: Facts?
Concerning the 1st Law of Thermo. Who should we believe: virtually every science textbook in the last 100 yrs which tells us that matter can neither be created nor destroyed or individuals like you who think you can magically whip up matter?

So you appeal to science and it's 100 years of textbooks, asking "who should we believe science or [cavediver]?", but yet reject 100 years of texbook when it comes to evolutionary biology?

Then you appeal to the reverse, saying that we shouldn't believe the textbooks and listen to you when we're talking about evolutionary biology?

So what, you just pick and choose what you like in the textbooks and use it as evidence only when it supports your belief, but reject the textbooks when it doesn't support your belief?

This doesn't seem like a very honest approach, Calypsis. Why do you appeal to science when it benefits you but reject it when it doesn't?

Shouldn't the questions you have about living cells be answered by the authorities in this field (no matter what their answer may be), and not holy books? The same as you seem to be doing for 1Lot mind you.

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Calypsis4, posted 10-01-2009 7:01 PM Calypsis4 has responded

Replies to this message:
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Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 3553 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 93 of 182 (527726)
10-02-2009 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by mark24
10-02-2009 3:38 AM


Re: Facts?
And when you apply the standards you expect of your opponents to yourself, it turns out you can't demonstrate that god did it, either.

Yes, I can. But that would take us clearly off topic.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by mark24, posted 10-02-2009 3:38 AM mark24 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by mark24, posted 10-02-2009 1:06 PM Calypsis4 has responded

  
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 3553 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 94 of 182 (527731)
10-02-2009 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by onifre
10-02-2009 11:42 AM


Re: Facts?
100 years of texbook when it comes to evolutionary biology?

You forgot to mention 100 yrs of scientists that said that evolution is false: Dr. Rudolph Virchow, Dr. Louis Agassiz, Dr. George McReady Price, Dr. Jean Henri Fabre, Dr. Fred Hoyle, Dr. Chandra Wickramasinghe, Dr. Henry Morris, Dr. Dean Kenyon, and more recently Dr. John Sanford, of Cornell U., one who believed in and taught evolution for 50 yrs. but tossed it out after his study of genetics. These are just a few of thousands of scientists listed in my files who either (a) would not accept it to begin with or (b) rejected if after research and study of the subject.

Evolution is not science, it is an interpretation of science. Not a very good one either. Nature cannot do what evolutionists insist that it does.


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 Message 92 by onifre, posted 10-02-2009 11:42 AM onifre has not yet responded

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 3534 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 95 of 182 (527732)
10-02-2009 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by Calypsis4
10-02-2009 12:56 PM


Re: Facts?
Calypsis,

Yes, I can.

No, you can't.

Mark


There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Calypsis4, posted 10-02-2009 12:56 PM Calypsis4 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Calypsis4, posted 10-02-2009 1:39 PM mark24 has responded

  
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 3553 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 96 of 182 (527734)
10-02-2009 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Dr Jack
10-02-2009 10:32 AM


Re: Laminin Shaminin
Don't be ridiculous, it's clearly much closer to the Rod of Hermes - look at how those b1 and b2 chains are wrapped around the central a chain - it's a demonstration on earth of Zeus's influence.
How can any honest person deny that?

Then show us from the ancient 'book of Hermes' or the 'book of Zeus' which tells us that 'HE' holds all things together.


Click to enlarge

You wish to compare THAT with this?


Click to enlarge

Sorry, that doesn't work.

I've looked at many pages of symbols of Zeus but found nothing that connects him to a cross like that which Jesus died upon. Please give some historical reference that will connect him with the living cell.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Dr Jack, posted 10-02-2009 10:32 AM Dr Jack has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Dr Jack, posted 10-02-2009 1:44 PM Calypsis4 has responded
 Message 101 by Theodoric, posted 10-02-2009 1:45 PM Calypsis4 has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6879
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 97 of 182 (527735)
10-02-2009 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Calypsis4
10-02-2009 9:59 AM


How forum works
The subject here is 'creation vs evolution'. If you don't wish to discuss the Creator then why do you come to such a venue to begin with?

This site is split between faith forums and science forums. YOu are posting in the science side, there fore it is incumbent upon you yo provide scientific evidence. Godidit is not scientific.

I think the admins should make it clear to you that faith based arguments are reserved for the faith discussions. On the science side we expect scientific explanantions..

Admins

Would any of you back me on this?


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Calypsis4, posted 10-02-2009 9:59 AM Calypsis4 has responded

Replies to this message:
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Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 3553 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 98 of 182 (527737)
10-02-2009 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by mark24
10-02-2009 1:06 PM


Re: Facts?
[qs]No, you can't.

Mark{/qs

I know about 40 people who were atheists, satanists, Wiccans, psychics, and secularists who saw something powerful enough to convert them to Jesus Christ that would beg to differ with you. Unfortunately, I cannot tell about them in this venue.

Now back to the topic.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by mark24, posted 10-02-2009 1:06 PM mark24 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by mark24, posted 10-02-2009 1:53 PM Calypsis4 has responded

  
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 3553 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 99 of 182 (527739)
10-02-2009 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Theodoric
10-02-2009 1:36 PM


Re: How forum works
This site is split between faith forums and science forums. YOu are posting in the science side, there fore it is incumbent upon you yo provide scientific evidence. Godidit is not scientific.

So, 'nature did it', right?

You need to stop complaining. Laminin is very much a part of science and there isn't anything you can do about it. The fact that it so closely resembles the cross of Jesus is a matter that is not lost to those of us who have known that the scriptures teach that Jesus Christ is the Creator who holds all things together (Colossians 1:16-17)

I will say it again; if you don't wish to talk about the Creator, then perhaps you need to move to another website. This is the CREATION vs evolution website. Right? Just in case you hand't noticed.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Theodoric, posted 10-02-2009 1:36 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by Dman, posted 10-02-2009 2:26 PM Calypsis4 has responded

  
Dr Jack
Member (Idle past 444 days)
Posts: 3507
From: Leicester, England
Joined: 07-14-2003


Message 100 of 182 (527740)
10-02-2009 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Calypsis4
10-02-2009 1:36 PM


Re: Laminin Shaminin
And you want to pretend that this:

Looks like this:

Clearly, denying the symbolism in how the b1 and b2 chains (dare I say snakes) wrap around the central staff, mirroring the Rod of Hermes and demonstrating Zeus's power on earth. All praise Zeus!

Sorry, doesn't work.

Edited by Mr Jack, : Bug causing it to double

Edited by Mr Jack, : No reason given.

Edited by Mr Jack, : Doubling again! What?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Calypsis4, posted 10-02-2009 1:36 PM Calypsis4 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by Calypsis4, posted 10-02-2009 7:16 PM Dr Jack has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6879
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 101 of 182 (527741)
10-02-2009 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Calypsis4
10-02-2009 1:36 PM


Topic please!!!
Any chance of getting back to the topic and a little less preaching and proselytizing??

How about some evidence for this statement.

Einstein said that 'matter' and 'energy' were interchangeable terms.

You forgot to mention 100 yrs of scientists that said that evolution is false: Dr. Rudolph Virchow, Dr. Louis Agassiz, Dr. George McReady Price, Dr. Jean Henri Fabre, Dr. Fred Hoyle, Dr. Chandra Wickramasinghe, Dr. Henry Morris, Dr. Dean Kenyon, and more recently Dr. John Sanford, of Cornell U., one who believed in and taught evolution for 50 yrs. but tossed it out after his study of genetics.

Ok you can name drop. How about telling us who they, their field of expertise and what they actually said. I kind of funny that you feel we should just take your word and their supposed word without any background.

Evidence, please provide some evidence.

Edited by Theodoric, : spelling


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Calypsis4, posted 10-02-2009 1:36 PM Calypsis4 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by Calypsis4, posted 10-02-2009 3:32 PM Theodoric has responded

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 3534 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 102 of 182 (527743)
10-02-2009 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Calypsis4
10-02-2009 1:39 PM


Re: Facts?
Calypsis,

I know about 40 people who were atheists, satanists, Wiccans, psychics, and secularists who saw something powerful enough to convert them to Jesus Christ that would beg to differ with you. Unfortunately, I cannot tell about them in this venue.

I know 40 people who "saw the light" of evolution, so as it turns out evolution is demonstrably true.

QED. By your own standard evolution is true & we can all go down the pub. Or would it be that special pleading again? I suspect so...

Mark

Edited by mark24, : No reason given.


There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Calypsis4, posted 10-02-2009 1:39 PM Calypsis4 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by Calypsis4, posted 10-02-2009 3:29 PM mark24 has responded

  
Dman
Member (Idle past 3357 days)
Posts: 38
Joined: 02-26-2009


(1)
Message 103 of 182 (527751)
10-02-2009 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Calypsis4
10-02-2009 1:44 PM


Re: How forum works
So, 'nature did it', right?

Another intellectually dishonest statement. No one said this.

You have been given a scientific model (not paraded as absolute truth, but still scientific). You chose to "hand wave" it away. Fine. But remember your post is in the science section. "Poof" is not science and will not constitute as an alternative here.

If you really want to avoid setting up a false dichotomy, the other option (yours) needs to be valid, and the only other alternative. As it stands right now, it is neither.

On to your OP.

1. What was the origin of the information now utilized in the transcription/translation/replication to produce protiens?

I noticed someone else asked you to provide a definition of information and you just mentioned DNA. My opinion is, that’s really not a definition of information.

Fact: Honestly I avoid debating creationists who use information in their arguments, because it never goes anywhere. So don’t bother trying to define it.

2. Since the helicase (protein) is required to open the double helix for the process mentioned above in order to produce other helicase proteins then what is the origin of the first helicase?

Opinion: Science is the right tool for the job. A tool that will eventually answer this question. Tentatively of course.

Fact: Creationists use god-of-the-gaps arguments in the frontiers of science. “We don’t know” becomes god-did-it. Like early explanations for lightning.

3. Where does nature develop chromatin outside of already existing living organisms?

Opinion: Science is the right tool for the job. A tool that will eventually answer this question. Tentatively of course.

Fact: Creationists use god-of-the-gaps arguments in the frontiers of science. We don’t know becomes god-did-it. Like early explanations for lightning.

Thank you. This will be appreciated.

You’re welcome.

Seriously? What is your point here? You had to have known that this question of yours is at the frontiers of science and still in very early stages, and mostly just being modeled?…Right? You knew this.

Be honest. You are just trying to bamboozle those who might just be observing, and you feel you have evidence that will push them your way. When all you have is unanswered questions for you to insert god. Trust me, God will be a temporary answer, as it has been during every other example of unanswered questions at the frontiers of science.

*POOF* I’m done.

Edited by Dman, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Calypsis4, posted 10-02-2009 1:44 PM Calypsis4 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by Calypsis4, posted 10-02-2009 3:27 PM Dman has responded

  
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 3553 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 104 of 182 (527761)
10-02-2009 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by Dman
10-02-2009 2:26 PM


Re: How forum works
Another intellectually dishonest statement. No one said this.

You have been given a scientific model (not paraded as absolute truth, but still scientific). You chose to "hand wave" it away. Fine. But remember your post is in the science section. "Poof" is not science and will not constitute as an alternative here.

If 'nature did it' is an error and that 'God did it' is an error, then what options are left? Please explain.

Why don't you try being honest with those with whom you differ with? I didn't 'hand wave' away anything so frivolously as you suggest. I did a lot of reading and research on this subject and I've done a lot more since I tossed out evolution. Reasoning like yours just makes that decision that much stronger.

Now, tell the readers why 'poof' is not scientific. Do it by empirical investigation.

Explain why all the hundreds of examples living fossils (fast growing toward thousands) is not evidence against biological evolution when in fact, anatomical changes cannot be seen from one kind of organism to another. That should be as easy as it is to trace back the Ford Broncho to Henry Fords first car.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Dman, posted 10-02-2009 2:26 PM Dman has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by Dman, posted 10-02-2009 4:08 PM Calypsis4 has responded

  
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 3553 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 105 of 182 (527762)
10-02-2009 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by mark24
10-02-2009 1:53 PM


Re: Facts?
I know 40 people who "saw the light" of evolution, so as it turns out evolution is demonstrably true

Ah, then you DO believe in miracles!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by mark24, posted 10-02-2009 1:53 PM mark24 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by mark24, posted 10-03-2009 7:43 AM Calypsis4 has not yet responded

  
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