EVOLUTION'S FRAUD HAS CONTRIBUTED TO ITS PUBLIC ACCEPTANCE:

Tomorrow morning I will begin actively moderating this discussion. My goals are to focus attention back on the topic, and to eliminate violations of rule 10:

10. Always treat other members with respect. Argue the position, not the person. Avoid abusive, harassing and invasive behavior. Avoid needling, hectoring and goading tactics.

Tomorrow morning I will post a brief note announcing that I have begun moderation, and violations of the Forum Guidelines appearing after that post will bring short (at least initially) suspensions.The key part of rule 10 is, "Argue the position, not the person." Just so there's no ambiguity about my interpretation of rule 10, violations of this rule often correlate with use of the word "you."

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

I'm now beginning moderation of this thread and will no longer be participating as Percy.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

The purpose of a debate board like this one is to outline, support and defend one's positions, so your statement that you "needn't defend it any further than that" is incorrect. Bare links should not be offered in place of your own arguments. Under most circumstances links should be used only as references. This is from the Forum Guidelines:

5. Bare links with no supporting discussion should be avoided. Make the argument in your own words and use links as supporting references.

Before you can validly note that TO has dishonestly failed to concede that Orce Man was a fraud, you first have to make your case that it actually was a fraud, which is what Granny Magda has requested.Please, no replies to this message.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

I would like both sides to ratchet it down and focus on the topic.The goal of EvC Forum is to provide a venue for discussions that actually make progress toward finding common ground and mutual understanding. One part of your position (but not the only one) that no one understands is why you think things like Orce man and Coelacanth are frauds. I think if you just explain your reasons clearly that it would go a long way toward moving discussion productively forward.Please, no replies to this message.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Continued ad hominem will begin resulting in suspensions soon. I've just started moderating this thread, so let's reset our passions to zero and focus on the topic.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Adminnemooseus and I have not had a chance to discuss whether or not this thread should be closed, so I'm reopening it in the meantime.Please keep discussion focused on the topic of discussion. Specifically, do not complain about treatment by other participants in this thread.This is the thread for reporting problems with discussion: Report discussion problems here: No.2. Before reporting a problem I suggest making very sure your own behavior has been above reproach.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

I know Archangel left himself wide open for these types of replies, but let's keep the focus on the topic. The ball's in Archangel's court right now. If he chooses to reply then the discussion can continue.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Hi Archangel,I really need everyone to begin addressing their responses to the topic. This usually takes the form of offering evidence and argument for one's position. If you'd like to discuss some other topic, then please propose it over at Proposed New Topics.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Hi Archangel,Let me try to help coax discussion back to the topic by focusing attention on one thing at a time. I did notice your bolding of "argument", but note that I did say "evidence and argument." You can't just argue, you have to build your arguments around evidence.You said something important in Message 268: So keeping this in mind, let's focus on just one thing, the evidence for fraud concerning Orce man. Is there evidence that Orce man is a fraud? If so, please describe it. Please try to avoid hearsay evidence.You can respond to this message, but address your response to the other participants. Now that I'm moderating I'm just trying to channel discussion onto productive avenues. I'm no longer a participant.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Hi Archangel,I'm only trying to bring some structure to the discussion. So we've established that there is no evidence that Orce man is a fraud, so let's move on to the Coelacanth. Please describe the evidence that the Coelacanth is a fraud.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Hi Archangel,If you would like to spend more time supporting your claim that Orce man is a fraud then that would be fine, but please keep the discussion grounded in evidence. When you're done discussing Orce man we can move on to the evidence for fraud surrounding the Coelacanth.To everyone,I'd like to encourage everyone to please keep the discussion civil, dispassionate, and focused on the topic. In particular, please avoid disparaging remarks about the other side as it encourages incivility, which is often the biggest barrier to open communication.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Some are paying attention to moderator requests, some aren't. Today I will begin more stringent enforcement. I will not only be hiding off-topic content, I will also begin issuing suspensions for repeated off-topic discussion.I'm also going to begin issuing suspensions for incivility. Each side should regard the other as the esteemed opposition, not the scum of the earth, at least in your public expressions.If you post in violation of these requests before reading this, fix it quick before I see it.Please, no replies to this message.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

I'm just focusing current discussion on Orce man as per your request in Message 278. You're more than welcome to move on to the Coelacanth if that is your wish. The off-topic discussion focused mostly on Neanderthals as fraud, so if you'd like to discuss that next instead then that would be fine (use the peek or edit buttons and copy/paste to reuse your text in new messages). I'm just here to bring some structure to the discussion, and to ensure that incivility doesn't cause the thread to spin out control. I'm not taking sides.I admire your passion, but if frauds have advanced acceptance of evolution among the public then evidence and rational argument is all you need. Acting antagonistically by doing things like questioning the honesty of the people you're discussing with isn't a very effective method of persuasion (e.g., "You people are so dishonest..." in Message 103 and so forth), plus it's against the Forum Guidelines, see rule 10.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

There have been no posts to this forum in a week, so it's summation time!Please post your summations or final arguments over the next couple days, after that I will close the thread. Please, no replies to other people's summations.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director