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Author Topic:   Another Chance For Creationists To Recite Falsehoods About Intermediate Forms
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 823 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 8 of 30 (528763)
10-06-2009 9:43 PM


A question I have often thought about, especially since seeing Kirk and his "crocoduck", is: what would a creationist allow as a transitional? So far it seems as though only some crazy monster that infuses 2 animals is going to be sufficient.
As a creationist: what would you even accept as a transitional?

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Briterican, posted 10-08-2009 5:38 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied
 Message 28 by Blue Jay, posted 10-13-2009 4:36 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 823 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 15 of 30 (529381)
10-09-2009 7:59 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Peg
10-09-2009 7:27 AM


it just shows that these are proclaimed as being a transitional before they have been 'proved' to be transitional
It was rumored to be transitional. Immediately upon inspection, it was found to be a fraud.
shouldnt they hold back until they have conclusive evidence? And isnt science supposed to get that evidence before it draws any conclusions and makes any claims?
Who drew a conclusion? Who made a claim? If you read the Wiki, you will see that
A: it was found by a farmer
b: The rumor circulated throughout the paleontological community that it was a transitional.
c: It was of extreme interest to The Dinosaur Museum in Blanding, Utah. The museum is run by Stephen A. Czerkas, who does not hold a university degree, but he is a dinosaur enthusiast and artist.
d: he fronted $80,000 for the purchase of the fossil on order for it to be studied by one paleontologist Phil Currie.
e: The National Geographic Society was contacted by Mr. Currie. (still not peer reviewed OR even studied)
f: All representatives of the scientific community wanted both for the fossil to be returned immediately to China AND for it to be studied.
g: Immediately as it was studied, it was found to be false.
So, I ask again, who made what claim before it was studied? A rumor is most definitely NOT a claim. I'm curious to know where you found your info on this fossil peg. Another creo web-site? I find it daft if you still go to them for information.
Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Peg, posted 10-09-2009 7:27 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Peg, posted 10-09-2009 8:51 AM hooah212002 has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 823 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 22 of 30 (529416)
10-09-2009 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Peg
10-09-2009 8:51 AM


Here, from the Wiki article I already pointed out, since you didn't read it:
The Czerkases contacted paleontologist Phil Currie, who contacted the National Geographic Society. Currie agreed to study the fossil on condition that it was eventually returned to China. The National Geographic Society intended to get the fossil formally published in the peer-reviewed science journal Nature, and then follow up immediately with a press conference and an issue of National Geographic.[6] Editor Bill Allen asked that all members of the project keep the fossil secret, so that the magazine would have a scoop on the story.
My guess? Mr. Currie told NatGeo what the scientific community had heard rumors about, then NatGeo flipped it around for coverage. You can't exactly contact them and just say "hey, we have another fossil" and they will be intrigued. No, he would have had to say "I think we MAY have an important fossil, but it has yet to be studied".
IF that is the case, shame on NatGeo.
Here, further down, we have this:
Currie in the first week of September sent his preparator, Kevin Aulenback, to the Dinosaur Museum in Blanding to prepare the fossil for better study. Aulenback concluded that the fossil was "a composite specimen of at least 3 specimens...with a maximum...of five...separate specimens", but the Czerkases angrily denied this and Aulenbeck only reported this to Currie. Currie did not inform National Geographic of these problems.[7]
So the guy who just dumped 80k in this fossil, can't accept it is fake, and Currie doesn't report to NatGeo, and why should he?
Furthermore:
On August 20 Nature rejected the paper, indicating to the Czerkases that National Geographic had refused to delay publication, leaving too little time for peer review. The authors then submitted the paper to Science, which sent it out for peer review. Two reviewers informed Science that "the specimen was smuggled out of China and illegally purchased" and that the fossil had been "doctored" in China "to enhance its value." Science then rejected the paper. According to Sloan, the Czerkases did not inform National Geographic about the details of the two rejections.[6]
By that time the November issue of National Geographic was already in preparation for printing, but "Archaeoraptor" was never formally published in any peer-reviewed journal.
It was REJECTED by both Nature and Science, was never accepted by the peer review board, and NatGeo went ahead and published anyways since they had not been informed that it was rejected. NatGeo should have checked up on it.
Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

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 Message 18 by Peg, posted 10-09-2009 8:51 AM Peg has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 823 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 30 of 30 (531063)
10-16-2009 12:21 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Blue Jay
10-13-2009 4:36 PM


Re: A living crocoduck!
But but, it's still a bug kind! No evolution there.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Blue Jay, posted 10-13-2009 4:36 PM Blue Jay has not replied

  
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